Cultural differences and vocabulary....

    • 746 posts
    May 19, 2009 12:31 AM BST
    OK...I get it...England has been around a lot longer than the USA and as result, has probably seen lots of twists and quirks in a language that we both share. But that said, there are certain words that probably are derogatory on both sides of the ocean. I would like to learn from cooler heads if me getting upset over the regular use of the word "C*NT in the Chat Room is just me overreacting to "nothing" based on another culture's acceptance of said word, or if it truly is offensive on both sides of the pond.

    Feel free to pitch in before I lose it and say/do something I'll probably regret.

    Thanks...

    Traci
    • 746 posts
    May 19, 2009 12:56 PM BST
    Thanks AM and Sammi...

    Traci
    • 404 posts
    May 19, 2009 3:42 PM BST
    It may be a venerable old english word....but it's use is still generally unacceptable given the context it's usually heard in.....and from which section of the community.


    Lynn
    • 871 posts
    May 19, 2009 9:31 PM BST
    hiya everyone,

    first of all, i would like to apologise, i am a big instigator of being naughty, i cant help being rebelious. I will refrain from using the word and i wont insite rebelion anymore either.

    i would also like to state that there are others who perform acts of bas taste also, and i hope this will also subside.

    love to everyone
    penny
    xxx

    i would also like to add that freedom and freedom of speech is not ultimate, freedom is a responsibility. the responsibility to ensure that everyone enjoys an equal share of freedom. I will head to this, I would apreciate if everyone else would too.

    • 746 posts
    May 19, 2009 10:12 PM BST
    Penny....no need to put the blame on yourself...lots of girls have been "naughty" in Chat, myself included...we all need to take a step back and maybe think before we act. Being a "resident" of the room, I know how silly and frivolous it can get in there, and for that reason, I keep coming back! I love all the girls in here and just thought this thread might help to air things out a bit. Seems like it's working! (s)

    Anyhow, you, me, and some of the others can take a lead role in making sure we don't scare off newbies, hurt regulars, and basically continue to provide comraderie and kinship to all that enter! This is a terrific site and it has taken years to evolve to where it is today. Being relatively new (2 month anniversary today), I missed lots of the growing pains and have contributed virtually nothing to the foundation of this resourceful domain. That said, I pledge to do the best I can to ensure it's continued success so that it may always be a source of comfort, information, and understanding to any and all that are fortunate enough to find us!

    Love,

    Traci xxxxx

    • 871 posts
    May 19, 2009 11:15 PM BST
    thats a really nice post traci. im sure everyone else here agrees with you too.
    lets all try to be a little more considerate towards eachother, put this to bed, and continue to good fun we all enjoy.
    xxxx
    • 746 posts
    May 20, 2009 3:31 AM BST
    Hey Wendy...we're all adults, or at least old enough to be adults....and when there is a will, there is a way! And besides, haven't you ever seen sisters squabble over nothing and then hug and make up? Yeah, me neither! LOL

    Seriously, everybody in this site wants TW to work...so we'll whatever it takes whenever it is needed!

    Traci Xxxx
    • 871 posts
    May 20, 2009 6:39 PM BST
    Hiya Rose

    I really enjoyed your post but i have to disagree on a couple of points. i know plenty of GGs who are very competant at the use of the C word and they wouldnt think twice about beating the crap out of any man that uses the C word in front of them, because of course, its only men who can be vulgar!! lol. I would say its more of a culture thing rather than a gender thing.

    i believe the way males loose their temper is testosterone driven, i doubt very much a TS on AAs or a post op has the ability to loose their temper like a male and pre-op and pre-mone TSs who have testostrone in their system shouldnt be judged like that really, i think its a bit unfair.

    knowing the individuals who have abused the language in the chat room, and me being one, just took a bad taste joke a little bit too far knowing it was wrong and contrvercial to do so, being the little devils we are! lol, it has stopped now.

    much love
    penny
    x
    • 746 posts
    May 21, 2009 9:43 PM BST
    not much ANYBODY can add to that to top it! But go ahead and try! LOL

    Thanks for shedding light on the subject matter crissie and Rae!!

    Traci
    • 18 posts
    May 24, 2009 1:31 PM BST
    Hey Traci...I think the use of profanity, especially the "C" word, not to mention the widely used "F" word, usually comes out of the mouth of ignorant, vocabulary-limited, people when they are backed into a corner and are searching for an adjective or a noun to use at the time. I'm not saying that I'm an english professor, and my vocabulary is limited, but I figure that I can't regulate what comes out of people's mouths, so why even bother trying. If someone uses profanity in my presence I can't stop him or her. It just helps me form an opinion in my own mind as to what kind of person they are. I just worry about myself using that type of language because i can regulate myself. I've been known to drop a few "F" bombs, but you can count one one hand the times I've used the "C" word. I'm all about respect and that word is as far from respectful as you can get ,so you'll never hear it out of my mouth...OK, I'll see ya around...Michelexxx
    • 871 posts
    May 24, 2009 3:54 PM BST
    Lets all be thankful that we have the freedom to chose or not to chose to use these words. Unlike the people who have to live with tourettes syndrome, big hugs for them xxxx
    • 404 posts
    May 26, 2009 1:42 PM BST
    Rose,

    That may be so,but.........................Lily Allen is on record as referring to papparazzi as c**ts.................Does this mean that Lily Allen is,to follow your reasoning,showing off her 'male brainedness' or,as in another of your diatribes,merely a bloke in a dress?


    Lynn
    • 871 posts
    May 26, 2009 9:02 PM BST
    i think everyones opinion here is really fookin valid.
    • 871 posts
    May 27, 2009 12:53 PM BST
    oh, btw, sorry about my previous post!!! i cant help being a little devil!

    I totally agree with you Wendy and I have witnessed many new girls arrive and everyone welcomes them and it is often said what a friendly chat room it is here and happy atmosphere which is a pleasure to experience.

    As with all social environments, individuals gain trust and friendship through common courtesy, interests and enjoying humour and banter. It is only when people of a particular ilk, ie rude, abusive and down right disrespectful, where they are in turn made to feel the same in return. This is the same as with any social circle, why should TW chat rooms be any different?

    After all, this is the general public chatting with the general public, its not a professional environment.

    For me, its like, "reap what you sow" and "you only get out what you put in"

    If anyone has any complaints then its probably of their own making.


    • 1195 posts
    May 27, 2009 3:37 PM BST
    I've been following this thread out of curiosity. I don't get much chance to chat - time has been very limited lately but will change soon.
    I can't say anything bad about my experiences in the chat room - I've always been greeted and returned the greetings. Conversation has been pleasant and cordial.
    From my own experience with "foul" language (ancient term) when I was in management (27 years) and then in teaching (too many years)I avoided "cuss" words and even avoided negative phrasiology - using such language wouldn't work- I was to set an example. "Be a leader"
    Now I'm not claiming sainthood in the least - when I'm driving I sometimes slip into the vernacular of the day. I do hope I haven't shocked anyone.
    Finally to my point of posting: If we're going to change the world, perhaps we should start by acting and speaking the way we expect to be spoken to. I'm don't mean we have to speak in some archaic tongue but we should be nice to each other and expecially to the newbies.
    hugs
    Gracie
    • 404 posts
    June 2, 2009 7:42 PM BST
    Lily Allen being..............46XX............


    Lynn
    • 2068 posts
    May 19, 2009 12:56 AM BST


    Traci its not just you hon, even i find that word offensive.....& i'm broad-minded.


    Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Anna-Marie
  • May 19, 2009 12:58 AM BST
    Hi Traci, No i do not think it is you over reacting in any way the word is offensive to the vast mojority of Girls in the UK to.
    I for one think it should be an instant removal from the chat room without any warning for anyone using it, yes we all have heard it and know exactly what it means, but for the life of me i can not understand why any Girl... Rg .. TS.. TV ...CD or any other persuation would use it. The only poeple i hear saying that word are Men as a derogatory word. I know if i said it infront of any RG i know personally they would be very upset that i had used it , not that i would ever use it. I believe we all have diiferent standards we set for ourselves but i think that word is over the top for most peeps.

    Hugs
    Sammi x
    • 2573 posts
    May 20, 2009 3:03 AM BST
    Thank you all for working this out as a Community issue and not leaving it up to "law enforcement". It is greatly appreciated, I am sure, by all the Chatroom Hostesses.
  • May 20, 2009 12:21 PM BST
    last word on the C word. the person using it is probly showing their male brainedness...good example from another forum is a bloke in afrock fooled the medcis enough that he think she is getting a vaigna for xams but just a few weeks ago he hada very male rant about his insurance company sending him mail in plain sealed envelopes...when I aksed 'how else could they do it?' it drove him into exposing his males with the meorable line 'I've spent fifteen minutes giving the company chairman a piece of my mine, 'I'VE GOT THE BALLS TO STAND UP TO HIM! I DON'T GET F******* ABOUT! I KICK THEIR A****!' this is from a woman trapped in a man's body? He is a man trapped in a man's body. Now he has decided to rename himself but once again shown his inner maleness by choosing the name BIGLIZ.

    • 734 posts
    May 21, 2009 1:48 AM BST
    Traci,

    Ah, late into the fray once more. But I don't use chat so I can hide behind that excuse...

    The UK and America have often been subject to that wonderful cliche of 'two countries separated by a common language' and how true that can be! But when it comes to the common or garden expletives we do share some. And c*nt is as offensive over here as it is over there. And its use in a chat facility can, quite rightly, be seen as not quite cricket. As they say.

    However, we can blame our American cousins for the increase in expletives over here. For some inexplicable reason, when it comes to culture, where you lead we often follow. So an increase in 'social swearing' in the past few decades 'over there' now swamps us 'over here'. The result being that people are being brought up by some sectors to believe that the use of the C word - and its better known relation, the F word - is quite acceptable.

    And it's not a gender thing. I hear it so often from all spectrums. And it remains harsh, unpleasant and vastly impolite.

    That said, I too swear by expletives. As and when the occasion arises. Usually when a nail breaks a little too far down for comfort.

    However, language - particularly English (the greatest thief there has ever been) evolves rapidly around the culture it is set in.

    The word f*ck, for example, only became a 'swear word' in the UK in the mid 1800's. [Being lazy, I've not rechecked the exact date], before that it was a perfectly acceptable word.

    But the biggest problem with a generation that bandies expletives around like confetti is that those words lose their value. So if the C and F word are used to death replacements have to come to the fore. I wonder what the swear words of the future will be?

    Anyway, sorry to digress, I just find the topic fascinating.

    And, yes, I need to get out more!

    Much love

    Rae x
    • Moderator
    • 2358 posts
    May 21, 2009 10:26 AM BST
    Oh well, add my two pence worth, The proliferation of profanity and expletives on television these days, Sorta validates their usage, imported phrases like the american MFkr, for instance. I was always taught that the use of swear words showed a lack of education, people using them with a limited vocabluary, But come on some jokes would just not be funny without a F in them.


    All the words mentioned have been incorporated into the Longmans FAMILY dictionary, theword apart from the obvious, is also listed as refering to an obnoxious or unpleasant person. A Fkr is also listed as a wastrel a moron or time waster, FO is listed as go away. Whilst ''go away you unpleasant person'' sounds sophisticated, I wonder if it has the same impact on some of the knuckle dragging moronic troglodytes we encounter in everday life. Personally, In confrontations of a verbal nature
    I tend to use more subtle words, like ignoramus, bombastic, it sorta bewilders the antagonist. mind they usually come back with the C word. lol, calling somone a masturbator, just does'nt have the same significance as WKR to the onlookers,. But basically in any argument, one must leave the opponent flumoxed and totaly speechles unable to make any inteligent reposte.
    The odd expletive injected into an argument, inteligently and with the right emphasis can have such a profound effect.

    now FO and have a good day, xxXCristineXxxx

    Forward Onward
    • 2573 posts
    May 24, 2009 10:45 PM BST
    Christine is right. The connotations of words are usually far more powerful than the denotations. Use of profanity towards someone is a way of showing disrespect, a verbal assault.

    Michele, spend more time around G-girls who accept you as one of them and you may find it harder to not use such words. I didn't learn to curse from my association with military people, it was from going to a school with a preponderance of girls who treated us guys like brothers most of the time and forgot we were there when they spoke openly. That need to talk to one another is not easily surpressed by women.
    • 530 posts
    May 25, 2009 9:24 PM BST
    I personally find both the 'C' and the 'F' word offensive. However, that is only my opinion, and I would not try and impress it on anyone else.

    I do feel that it reflects badly on anyone who cannot hold a conversation without the use of expletives, especially when typing, as there is adequate time to choose another form of emphasis.
    General use of either word has not yet made then acceptable, though the 'F' word has lost all meaning, and is therefore only a word, with no reason for it's use anywhere.

    I think that if anyone finds someone else's language unacceptable in chat, a simple request to desist should be respected, and an attempt made to stop. If they do not or can not, I can only pity them.

    (N.B.I have been in chat on occasons where I have made such a request, and the perpetrator continued with renewed vigour, presumably in an attempt to wind me up or instigate their removal. I don't wind up, and if anyone else in chat at the time had voiced an objection, someone would have left, and it would not have been me!)
    • 2573 posts
    May 26, 2009 2:21 PM BST
    Let's keep it non-hostile, ladies.
    • Moderator
    • 2358 posts
    May 26, 2009 4:20 PM BST
    I really do think that, several very profound and far reaching factors influence how we express ourselves, One of the main causes as I stated before is television and films, Which do tend to add validation to various frowned upon words I watched, an american film of shaft the other night, every other word was Mfkr.
    Also the lack of promoting the reading of classical literature, kids today, and kids of my generation (school) spend more time playing computer games. I was always encouraged to read books. How many kids bother to read a book at home. It also relates to ones peers, go to a dump school and the requirement to fit in are paramount to survive. The tendancy for the better educated privileged people perhaps use profanity as a shock tactic, because its so unexpected from them. In this case one can use royalty as an example, Princess Ann is renowned for some of her utterings of the F word. I also recognize that some people use adulterated swear words in the chat room, fook is in regular usage, we all know what it infers, but no one actually complains about that, personally I must admit I am also guilty of this, as I say King Idiot at times and other derivatives on that theme when frustrated and annoyed, Perhaps on reflection, I should use moronic, supercilious, uneducated, buffoons, But I think people would get more incensed at being called a moronic imbecile than a king idiot. Or go forward and replicate yourself


    I would hardly class myself as educationally subnormal or lacking coherance and vocabluary, I consider myself fairly erudite and think people do tend to let standards slip to fit in, if somone tells you to FO you revert in the main to replying in a language they can understand,That does not nessearily mean one is lacking in alternative adjectives and nouns.

    Cristine xxXxx
  • May 26, 2009 8:29 PM BST
    Lily Allen being...?
  • May 27, 2009 2:00 AM BST
    i agree with Sue, its a public chat room and eveything said there is typed and no matter how fast you are at typing you still have time to think what you have typed before you send it. I realise that when confronted by someone in person the odd expletive can be used to make a point but i still can not see or understand why any expletive's would be used in a internet chat room.
    I dont profess to be well educated coz i'm not at all i had way to many things going through my mind at school to be even slightly interested in what was going on there, but i still find the C word offensive and never use it. i realise that people have freedom of speech in most coutries of the world but with that comes the responsibility to behave in a manner not offensive to other people. As a Tg person i have been called lots of nasty names in my time as most of us have but surley the only way to beet that is to rise above it and move on, not join in and drop to the neanderthals level.
    Hugs
    Sammi x

    ps this is not aimed at anyone tis just my own feelings
    • 2573 posts
    May 27, 2009 4:03 AM BST
    It is true, that use of profanity in a public chatroom can be damaging to TW as a whole. While I am not personally too bothered by it, as a Chat Hostess, and therefore a representative of TW at the time, I do feel some need to monitor it. If a group of girls, that I know are all comfortable with their language, are in the chatroom, I tend to let it ride. However, if a new person, or one I don't know well enough, enters the chat I will give a verbal caution "clean it up, ladies". It should be unnecessary to have a Chat Hostess there for this to happen.

    There are, in my opinion, far worse things that can be said in a TW public chatroom. This includes the use of "It" towards any individual. I can think of no more inappropriate pronoun to be used by ANY TG person toward another person. Faggot, Queer, Tranny. Dyke......sure, we have stolen those for our own use and destroyed their value to the bigots by throwing them back in their faces. I don't know any TG or CG person who would call themselves "It" or accept that designation. It flies in the face of our core values. I can think of nothing that would send me, as a new member, running from TW faster. We must set the example.