Dear Friends,

I am in the midst of writing a work of fiction ( a historical thriller) in which one of the protagonists will be tv. He is initially male-identified, but is forced to dress up completely and 'pass' in order to carry out an investigation. While he begins the story as bisexual, he fills the role of a male lesbian, and in fact, in the course of the story, he falls in love with his lesbian partner, and she with him, knowing full well that under the skirts is still the old equipment. I am basing him visually on the young Eddie Izzard, who ran the gamut between pretty (but still male) pixie, to full on stage stiletto heels and dress.

The questions I have are the basic ones of how a man not taking hormones would be able to pass daily as a woman -- assuming of course he was fortunate enough to have a feminized body shape and a full head of hair. These would be,

-- Would you need to shave your legs all the time? What about arms and chest?

-- Is it theoretically possible to pass with just a minimum of make-up, if you are lucky enough to have a feminine face?

-- Does a romance between a pretty tv and a lesbian seem likely? (Obviously a lesbian who is not put off by men.)

-- Are there any bisexual tvs on the forum who can confirm that this 'state of mind' is possible?

And, on perhaps the most personal question, does it ever happen that when the male genitalia are safely and tightly tucked away under female garb that a man can become aroused? What happens then? Does it hurt?

I want to emphasize that it is my intention of creating a thoroughly admirable character here, one who behaves heroically, and achieves happiness at the end of the novel (if not for life). I would be grateful for any suggestions as to how he would maintain his femininity while traveling.

Much thanks in advance

Justine

Dear Christine

Half baked? I am afraid my understanding of tvs is not baked at all. That is why I am here, trying to get a sense of what life is like for tvs who actually walk the walk -- in high heels, no less.

I am an over-fifty lesbian myself and remember when it was terrifying to even admit to myself that i was gay. So I can sympathize with people trying to get a foothold in normal life and society when they do not fit the expected mold. I feel like tvs are struggling up the mountain I climbed a few decades ago.

As for tittilating (hmm. how do you spell that?) myself, I think I can say with a clear conscience that I am not doing that. As an author (I have published four other novels) I have tried hard to get into the minds of all of my main characters and make them sympathetic to one degree or another,* so that the reader knows they are not getting a cartoon but an in-depth character. They have been gay and straight, male and female, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim, saintly and malicious, but all, I hope, have been "authentic."

I do not know if any historical fiction featuring tvs has been written by an actual tvs. If so, good. All I am offering is a pretty good (if I say so myself) fast-paced thriller with a tv heroine, written by a crusty old lesbian, and any information I get from people here will help make her all the more real.

* with the exception of a cardinal representing the Spanish Inquisition, but I think I can be forgiven for that.

Justine

Dear Nikki,

Thanks for your friendly response. Voice, yes, I should have thought of that. i'll have to be sure to make him a soft-spoken tenor.

As for the idea that lesbians would not be interested in male genitalia, I think that view falls into the trap of assuming there are only two kinds of sexual desires, for men or for women. An aside to that is the fact that lesbians are just fine with penetration, though of course it is with (ahem) other anatomical parts or other objects.

I am convinced that sexual interests are as varied as sexual behavior and that people move along a spectrum, several spectra, in fact. You need only think of the wide variety of sexual practices there are among all people, not to mention sex toys, so that I think in the final analysis, terms like gay and straight tell very little about what is going on in someone's head when they are attracted to another person. I think we all want to be sexually attractive to everyone.

In any case, it will be a challenge to skills as a writer, to make my tv so irresistible that the lesbian will fall for him, at least in one of his modes.

Justine

Hi Justine,
What a great idea for a story. I am living proof that a lesbian can fall in love with a TV or a TS. Been there done that!!! and am doing it still.
Yes on the shaving legs and arms, not necessarily the chest as that would probably covered. Yes a feminine male figure and face could easily pass without hormones, I have seen it.
On a personal note, the thought of a "package" hiding under that miniskirt, ooooohhhhh so sexy!!!!!!!!!!!
I may be lesbian but I do not discriminate against a person because they have a penis, that is not fair. We can not choose our birth gender right? Maybe I am different from most lesbains but I have met one other lesbian with the same philosophy. It is rare but not impossible.

hope this helps your story, let me know if you need more ideas because I am pretty much the real life lesbian character in your story.

and... oh yeah.. I love penis penetration. I probably blew people preconceived notions out of the water just now but we have to remember that gender is not binary it is infinite!!!!!

I was hoping you would respond to this thread Josi. I was thinking that there are basically too needs in life, physical needs and emotional needs. Guys tend to focus on the physical needs, providing and protecting. Women tend to have the emotional needs of understanding and nurturing. So it is my opinion that lesbians put more emphasis on wanting someone who can provide that emotional understanding and more often than not that is found in another woman. But like Josi pointed out it can be found in some TV's and TS's. The sex is something you just make do with the parts at hand, more important is the person.

Therefore the story is easily plausible because there are plenty of guys who look very feminine. The shaving really isn't an issue unless somehow you want the guy to go from hairy to smooth and back. Otherwise the occasional touch up other than the face should be sufficient. You can also go with a native American because they actually have very little facial and body hair.

And I think Josi answered the under the miniskirt question better than the rest of us could ever attempt to. LOL.

Hugs,
Marsha

Thank you all for your commentaries, and I hope I have established my honest credentials so that i can come back later with more questions. Thanks especially to Josie who backed me on on the idea that a lesbian could fall in love with a tv/ts.

I have never had the pleasure to be intimate with such a person, but on two occasions I was pretty sure I wanted to. In both cases, it was a person who had just the right balance between femininity and masculinity, that is, womanliness that is not too girlie-girl and yet something strong, but not butch inside. I find such 'balanced' tvs more attractive than very butch women, for example.

And since I have your attention, I would also like to ask what you all think of Eddie Izzard. Of course, on stage, he was usually painted up quite a lot, but off stage he wore his own (carefully frosted) hair, earrings, make-up and high-heels with pants. I found that attractive.

Justine

Dear Rae,

Tucking? Thank you for the suggestion, which I dutifully followed. And it was a revelation. Wow. Who'd have thought!
(That explains a lot).

Justine

I think the answers depend very much on the individual Justine. After reading my initial blurb, it basically comes down to the same issues of passing that occur today.

Shave when you need to.
Use appropriate make up, rather than anything OTT.
As for romance, I think anything is possible but I can't imagine a lesbian wanting anything to do with male genitalia, why would they?
Femininity when travelling is the same as when not travelling, for example, you still need to reapply your make up as required.
Be aware of your traits which may belie your gender, how you walk, sit etc.
Oddly, you make no mention of what is a huge issue for passing, and that is one of 'voice'. Get that wrong and it's game over.

Nikki

Justine, I know lesbians are fine with penetration but not from what they would percieve as male genitalia so you would need to pay attention to how the TV is perceived by her, i.e. a woman with a different anatomical structure or as a man dressed up as a women?

Anyway, this is your story so how you write it is up to you. Good luck with it.

Nikki

actually I have the sneaking suspicion that 'falling for a tv' is the very worst nightmare a lesbian can have and is the root of all the mysogyny put about by lesbian writers...

[It would be nice to see this thread in the Tranny Fiction forum to help revitalise what should have been a good place to be...]

Obviously, a lot would depend on exactly what era you are setting the novel. I am sure there have been many periods in history where the male has been fasionably effete. That would've given you a head start!

Why make the job difficult for yourself? A feminie looking guy with little need to shave would be perfectly plausible.

You state you're a lesbian, Justine, so you should have a good understanding of what a lesbian would find feasible and attractive. Bearing in mind it's a work of fiction!

I'm sure a google search of 'tucking' would give you more information than required.

Everything is theoretically possible ... !

Josi - I can't believe I forgot about your situation, as you say, you are living that right now.

I would disagree about chest hair though, depends on what you wear as to whether it can be seen or not. Besides, I would imagine most people going to the effort to shave everywhere else would not leave the chest area alone.

Justine - on a personal note, nothing would get me aroused down there once everything is tucked away. Not physically at least, it's just not possible, but I would be emotionally aroused. I hope that makes sense.

Nikki