Jennifer Lives wrote to Marsha: "Eventually, I’d appreciate how you arrived at your epiphany - or the set of circumstances enabling you to take the Giant leap from closeted CD directly to a TS - bypassing an androgynous or open CD stage."

I recently recognized I am TG. Was never a crossdresser, but realized it through other ways, like how I feel feminine when I dance, how people I don't know think I'm a girl over the phone, etc. In the late '90s I spent time on a forum called spiritwb, with the handle Drummer,...most thought I was a girl. Most of my (romantic) girlfriends got tired of me because they all seemed to desire a more masculine partner,...probably so they would feel more feminine. From my observations the least yin a female, the more yang energy she craves. Fortunately, a few years ago I found a very yin woman who has accepted my feminine nature. She doesn't need a macho guy to make her feel feminine.

I also recently began the physiological feminization process,...and absolutely love the calmness, softness, and my growing breasts. However, I have been a guy so long that I thought androgyny or ambi-gender would be the likely course,...perhaps joining the Society of Second Self, and learn to do things in female clothing.

Interestingly, for the past 10 weeks I see my male body as female. That was probably expected after shaving,...but I let it grow back and still see myself as a girl,...although a hairy girl.

Anyway, Jennifer Lives comment about bypassing an androgynous or open CD stage gave me pause. I have an undeniable propensity to see and imagine myself as female,...I've had that knowledge on different levels since 8 YO. Mostly it was a sexual fantasy,...now its a 24/7 reality.

If there was a pill to transcend into a female with vagina and all, I'd take it in a blink of the eye. How I'd love to have a vagina,...it would be like coming home. However, I'm not an allopathic medicine person,...would never have breast augmentation, nor have a desire to use pharmacuetical drugs. But when I heard of herbal feminiization I leaped right in.

I suppose that an androgynous or ambi-gender phase may ultimately be left wanting. Although for now it seems perfect while I get my feet wet.

Janelle

Hi Janelle. Let me start by once again saying I believe I was born TS and that no, I did not go through or even bypass the CD androgynous stage. Maybe something similar but all that is debatable. My perception of you is that you are coming to the realization that you have a female side and you are in a period of discovery not knowing exactly where the boundaries are. Clearly nothing wrong with that. I believe fantasizing about this stuff has one direction and that is trouble. Be careful that you do not get in the endless trap of wondering what this or that would be like. All I'm saying is do things with a purpose.

You mention you do not like doctors or pharmaceuticals yet you describe your use of herbals as if they are not a form of medicine. The problem with herbals is even if they have a chemical within that was to give you the effect you desire, they are also made up of other chemicals that may or may not give you positive health effects. Worse yet is they may interact with other products you use voiding any gain you may feel you were achieving individually. Once again that is why I believe you should have some sort of medical supervision if you are going to attempt to change the chemistry of your body.

The magic pill will likely never come along, just a fantasy. But if it existed, it would likely be a pharmaceutical product, then what?

Hugs,
Marsha

Lucy Diamond wrote: "Before being approved for surgery most of us are expected to go through the “Real Life Experience” where we present unambiguously as female."

I've read that in the USA, the "gatekeepers" frown on allowing heterosexual males to proceed in MtoF transition. In this country they would say I have autogynephilia. I do admit I'm gyne-centric, but I have little desire to be with a male.

At best I resonate with the following:
"the imagined partner is faceless or quite abstract, and seems to be present primarily to validate the femininity of the person having the fantasy, rather than as a desirable partner....She stated that she felt no particular attraction to men’s bodies, but was only interested in the way in which being with a man sexually made her feel like a desirable woman. Asked whether this meant that her male partner functioned primarily as another “fashion accessory” with which to enhance her self-image, like a pretty dress or a designer handbag, she replied that this metaphor expressed her feelings exactly."

Not the sort of statement that "gatekeepers" want to here.

Janelle

Nikki wrote: "A TS woman is generally unhappy about living as a male and doesn't identify as one. These feelings often go back to early childhood."

I can say that I have a general uneasiness living as a male,...had since at least 8, and probably earlier. Seems it's a matter of degrees. Just to get along, I adopted a habit of living as a virgo male, although I see myself as female,...guess I'm sort of a crossdresser already - a female pretending to be male, using an outwardly male body (except for now, and my female bust). I'm certain that I'm not a CD,..I see myself as female regardless of the clothes I wear.

In a COGIATI I tested as PROBABLE TRANSSEXUAL. If I didn't know which way was South, or got upset about thinking about complex things I would have been a Class 5 TS,...and the "gatekeepers" would allow me into their system.

Janelle

Janelle, I think gatekeepers in the U.S. are a thing of the past. If you have one that is not taking care of your needs, by all means find someone else. Moments ago my psychologist sent me the final draft of my GRS Recommendation Letter to proof read before she prints it out and signs it. She is fully aware that I am married. You mentioned something about the gatekeepers frown on heterosexuals, what is heterosexual when you are a transsexual? In my research recently on legalities of marriage after I have surgery, I have found there are numerous interpretations that vary by state. To me it sounds like you have yourself convinced that you would never be approved for transition. I can't answer that.
Marsha

Hiya Janelle,

Lots of good advice here. One thing I would like to add is that understanding that you are TG is more of a path of self-discovery than anything else. A lot of people spend the first part of their lives not really understanding who they are in a muddle from day to day and then when they explore the TG path some declare they are TS and some don’t.

I found that tests like the COGIATI do not dictate to us who we are but just allow us try and understand ourselves a little better. Tests like that are a small step of a very long journey.

The great thing about today’s society is that we don’t have to fit into someone’s pigeonhole or conform to what’s expected, we are free to be ourselves. Its only small-minded bigots who try to make people conform and live their lie. After all who is stupid enough to allow themselves to live up to other people expectations in a conformist prison? Ah, yes, small-minded bigots. The rest of us learn to respect eachother for whoever we are.

All the best with your self discovery and I wish you lots of happiness.

Love
Penny
x

I think the COGIATI test should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't remember if my score was 605 or 506, doesn't really matter because both are way up there. My first therapist asked me maybe a handful of questions that are similar to what is on the test like when did I first feel this way, that was years before I ever saw the COGIATI. I wonder if it was designed in hopes that it could be sold or something to psychs to help them diagnose GID. Knowing what I know now I think if a psych put that test in front of me I would laugh and tell him/her what they could do with it. If they couldn't evaluate me talking to me and probing that way, they wouldn't be worth any price. My current psych has never questioned my GID, we work more on my integration into society. Honesty goes a long ways in the diagnosis. Another thing that can help proper diagnosis is being of sound mind. Being TS is not a badge to be worn proudly, it is your life and for many it is a difficult life.

I think that is what maybe bothers me most about all this. Not saying you Janelle, but some think it would be cool to be transsexual. As many have pointed out here, you are born this way, not made this way. It may take a period of discovery to find your place, but it is out there somewhere.

Hugs,
Marsha

Thank you all for the inspirational comments above.

Marsha wrote. "some think it would be cool to be transsexual."

I don't want to get into specifics,...but why would someone think it is cool to be a transsexual? For me the odds are that I will never realize the xx I desire,...but I can perhaps filter my consciousness through a predominant estrogen biology.

Like the monk Avalokiteshvara, when he uncovered the beautiful qualities of the feminine -- love, trust, compassion, gratitude, and deep surrender -- he became Kuan Yin,...perhaps I can realize my wish to fully understand compassion.. Many people don't realize that all Bodhisattvas are primarily feminine.

Penny Moo wrote. "small minded bigots."

That's another reason why transsexualism is not cool,...I don't think out-of-the-closet means you eliminate a need for cautiousness. And believe me, there are more "small minded bigots" in the USA than people admit....for example, in May 2002, the 9th District Court said that the "The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community." How did America respond? 86% according to the Associated Press, called for the dismissal, and even the death, of that Court.

No TS is safe as long as the Judeao-Christian-Islamic delusions remain anywhere, except for the dark walls of museums. Of course religion and femininity is another subject for another thread,...which would probably include:


"every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman". Clement of Alexandria

“Blessed be God, King of the Universe that Thou has not made me a woman.” an Orthodox Jewish Prayer for Jewish males

"girls begin to talk and to stand on their feet sooner than boys because weeds always grow up more quickly than good crops". Martin Luther

Col 3:18 and Titus 2:11-12, let women learn in silence and be completely submissive; for no woman shall be permitted to teach or have authority over men.

Personally, I don't understand how any female could have anything to do with those patriarchial religions.

Janelle

Janelle, if you truly know you want to be female then I think you should stop telling yourself that you are against surgery, doctors and medicine, put your principles aside and just do it. I can tell you, it really is wonderful to be the woman you always knew you were. I’ve always had a total belief that I am a girl, but the science really can help with the physical changes. And yes, having a vagina is lovely, especially one that works beautifully!

I don’t think many transitioned TS’s will have gone through any particular “androgynous” phase, certainly in this country. Most of us do our best to present as male until we decide to transition. Before being approved for surgery most of us are expected to go through the “Real Life Experience” where we present unambiguously as female. In fact I’ve never actually met anyone who I would describe as truly androgynous, even temporarily. Sure, most of us will grow our hair a bit in preparation before we actually come out to everyone, but I wouldn’t call this an androgynous phase, we are still supposedly presenting as male.

Marsha’s point is entirely valid; people might think “herbs” are better/safer/more natural than “medicines” because they are called herbs, it sounds “green”, ecologically-friendly, natural, good for you…
But they are drugs just as much as regular hormones are drugs. Hormones are often extracted from the same plants in fact, just modified to be more efficient and less toxic. The ones I take are called “bio-identical”, this means there is no difference whatsoever to hormones found in the human body. I don’t see that as medicine; it’s already in my body, it’s not a foreign substance. And I’d rather have that than chucking down masses of “herbal” products which are almost certainly more toxic than estrogen found in the body.
The estrogen I take is called simply, estrogen, because there is nothing to distinguish it from bodily-produced estrogen. To me this is not allopathic; it is natural. Certainly more natural than eating loads of weird plants that are toxic to our bodies.
xx

Another point that the first post raises is, 'making the giant leap from closeted CD to TS', that is a misconception, it doesn't work that way. A person doesn't 'become' TS, you just are TS, maybe you aren't sure or are in denial and perhaps you think you are CD but the two are completely different.

As a general rule, a CD has no desire to live full time or permanently change their gender, whereas a TS does. A TS woman is generally unhappy about living as a male and doesn't identify as one. These feelings often go back to early childhood.

Nikki