Hi Sue thanks , its not just me then ' the reason i brought the subject up is that there is an event called Suffolk pride later this month and i was thinking of going as i am very proud of my sexuality and try to support others with there problems when i can , i know people will use this day as a real oportunity to get out and feel safe and hopefully be able to gain some confidence as its an outdoor event and not enclosed and will be policed but there will always be a few creeps trying to spoil it for them , i have learned how to handle them now but others will be put off by them but hopefully the police will stop that and let these people have a great day .
Thanks again Julia xx

Hi i just wondered if i am in a minority or majority as i can,t and won,t go to a TG venue , i went to one about 2 years ago after someone on a website kept bugging me to go and i hated it and i will tell you how i felt .
I arrived at this place in essex giving 2 people a lift in my car and the evening started off realy slow and boring so i went for a walk as the trees along the road looked more interesting , anyway after about an hour i went back and the place had started to fill up and i was being introduced to people ect but i still did,nt feel at ease , i kept getting asked stupid things like where did i get dressed? or you make up looks nice did you do it in the tiolet?, to be honest i would have rather been digging my garden or shopping in tescos . The reason i felt like this is because i was being segregated from the outside world , it just was not my way of enjoying myself and i don,t mean this in an unkind way but i kinda felt like i was in a zoo and the amount of times a strange hand went between my legs was making me feel rather sick , maybe it is just me but i realy don,t expect things like that in my everyday life "after all these were strangers" and if that happened to me in my local someone would get a serious slap and regret it .
I realy would like to know how others feel about this, do you not mind being put into a place just for transgendered people? and do you not mind having complete strangers basicly sexualy assalting you?.

Julia xx .

Julia,
I'm not surprised you're twice shy after going through the experience you've described in your post which was sexual assault as far as I'm concerned.

Ewwww! I don't think I would stick around long at a function remotely similar to what you have described Julia. I do attend LGBT social functions on a regular basis and totally love those affairs. Our events are more like after work get togethers, come as you are, and are held at different members homes monthly. There are two groups in our community, P.R.I.D.E. and the other is First City Network. PRIDE members tend to be the younger, more flamboyant crowd and most of their functions don't even start until 10 or 11p.m. at night and go into the wee hours. The PRIDE people call those hours "Drag Queen Time" and that coincides with a club in town that has the female impersonators and shows usually start around 10:30p.m. The First City Network is more mature professionals and the events tend to run from 7:30-100p.m. Needless to say an old lady like me belongs to First City Network.

We have an annual function here in Georgia that is probably similar to Sparkle over there. Ours is called Southern Comfort Conference and many of the top SRS and FSS surgeons attend and offer seminars along with anyone and everyone else that wants to help you transform. I've never gone and have no real desire because from what my friends have told me it is all about the parties in the evenings. It is overwhelmingly CD's there which is fine, I hope they have a great time, it is just not for me.

Along with the monthly socials where everyone is invited, FCN also has lesbian potluck socials just for the gals and I have been to one of them so far. I was amazed to meet 4 trans men there and had a great time. The lesbians have been exceptionally kind to me.

Before I was living fulltime I had gone out to a couple gay bars with some TG friends. The gay bars never did anything for me and as the night moved on the guys would start making googly eyes at each other and pair up, lol. That might be sort of like the behavior Julia mentioned with the groping.

I don't know, if anyone reached between my legs I seriously can see someone getting hurt. I can't fathom the idea.

Hugs,
Marsha

I steer clear of anything TG .venues events, stay even further away from anything LGBT as sexuality has nowt to do with my status as a woman.
But I will say this. Sounds like you was taken to one of the very many seedy,holes that many Tvs do love to attend to enable some quick casual sex and thus the behaviour to others at such venues is if they they are there they must be wanting the same. Yes you was sexually assulted and i like you think totally unacceptable. Remeber most Tvs are guys in frocks and resort to male behaviour especially sexually .try to take what they can or get what they can when they are horny. Wrong but thats how it is. If anyone finds those words i have just posted distasteful, well i am sorry but its reality and of course TVs who actually desire something different from their dressing experiences would not be seen dead at such places.
I have found much the same approach with most gay places be them male or female clubs or bars.

I myself go to places that interest me .....Proper hard core trance techno elctro,Dnb etc dance clubs. Any pub bar restaurant etc i wish to yes different for me being a woman.
There are better venues around though thin on the ground where you can go socially dance sit chill and chat and enjoy a hassel free night you just need to know where they are.

As for the pride thing go to it if your proud about your sexuality and wish to shout it from the roof tops etc fine from those I know who attend such things they are enjoyable days out and good after parties go have fun.

There is no organisation for people like me sexually to represent me...Pan sexuals.............but then again a bitch like me doesnt require anyones voice to speak on my behalf ,though strangely i never actually ever have to fight any battles etc about any Gender,or sexuality stuff...............sorry getting sidetracked.

Guess for me though i have a ton of experience relating to Tv/Tg/LGBT scenes clubs and venues i know there are huge variations and attitudes in such places. Good one exist just a matter of finding them. groping in any club univited should result in immediet ejection from such premises and i know a couple of clubs where such is enforced if it isnt an invited grope....

gosh what a lot of rubbish just written by me .........................................sorry doing my yearly posting to keep the meter ticking over or something.

I guess I can't really critisise anyone for going to a venue and hitting on someone I went to a local support group 4 years ago that was just starting up. The primary rule was it was not a pick up joint however I saw a girl there whose entire person I instantly became smitten with. We seemed to cut the room in half, paying little or no attention to anyone else to the point where I became slightly embarrassed. All the following week I waited anxiously for the next meeting to hopefully see her again. I even drove the 20 miles to the pub where we went afterwards in the hope that I might "accidentally" bump into her. We met again and swopped phone numbers but she told he she had a boyfriend. I was crushed, annoyed at myself for feeling the way I did because I had not intended to become interested in someone, especially a girl, even worse a transwoman....my life was complicated enough. But when we talked on the phone for hours over the next few days she said she was falling for me. My head swirled and I felt queasy...how could this beautiful woman be falling for me, ugly, boring, sexless, fat little me? What did it mean to me? We met the next night and she walked towards me on a rainy April evening in 2006. We were in each others company until 3am, at which point I thought about work which was now 4 hours away but I looked into her eyes and said "I don't want to go home". She replied "You don't have to". I never did, my home from that day onwards was and always will be with her.

Hi Sarah. Well i steer clear too for the segregation reason , i can,t see why in the 21st century people just can,t accept the fact that some people are transgendered .
As far as i am concerned i am a female but i cannot escape the fact that i was born in a male body and although i have accepted that there are a few that can,t .
As for being proud of my sexuality i don,t mean i want to go around with a big sign saying "hey look at me" they already look at me! , i am in a way proud of how i and others manage to get through a life that after all is not an ideal situation and thats where my pride comes from .
I feel for people who have knowone to turn to as i had knowone to turn to so i know thats bloody hard and if i can help one person and stop them having to go through that then my life has had a purpose .

Julia xx

Julia, with the where do you hangout and why question out of the way, I think what you have in mind with attending the Suffolk Pride is a very noble idea. Some of the posts and recent blogs imply that once we consider ourselves women we no longer belong or need to associate with the TG community. I believe that is the worst possible thing anyone can do for our community. The public needs to experience the good people we are if we ever want them to accepts us for who we are. Those who abandon our community are guilty of exactly the same thing we accuse society of doing to us. They are saying look at those freaks, I'm not one of them. The fact is yes they are and they will always be one of us and there is nothing wrong with that.

My day to day life now is that of a woman, however that does not stop me from having friends and acquaintances from all walks of life including the LGBT community. A wild TG venue is not my cup of tea, but I will not condemn those who do participate in such events. But being there for support of others is an entirely different thing, and is something I hope in one way or another all of us can do for the remainder of our lives.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hiya Julia,
Its a very big shame you had to experience the sexual assault. I hope you deal with that experience well so it doesn’t affect the rest of your life. I would say that it wasn’t so much the venue but the people who were around you. You could be sexually assaulted just as easily in a non LBGT environment. I wouldn’t describe LBGT or transgendered meetings as seedy but I would some individuals who spoil it for everyone else and if anyone attempted to sexually assault me, without my permission, they would definitely get a smack in the mouth!

I am as comfortable going to gay bars and TG meetings as I am going to my local rock pub and head banging the night away to Black Sabbath. How I feel about myself is that I define who I am and the location and people around me do not control who I am and what I get up to. If anyone is foolish enough to make a judgement or make assumptions about me then who is the idiot? I would say there are lots of really nice gay, lesbian and transgendered people who I am very happy to be friends with.

Best of wishes
Penny
x

Ali, that’s a very beautiful story

hi julia,yeah I know what you mean, about being gropped at a tg venue is really obnoxious.I would like to chat with you some time at lenght in a chat room.My name is simone and live in the U.S. feel free to look me up in chat room!

Marsha said

Some of the posts and recent blogs imply that once we consider ourselves women we no longer belong or need to associate with the TG community. I believe that is the worst possible thing anyone can do for our community. The public needs to experience the good people we are if we ever want them to accepts us for who we are. Those who abandon our community are guilty of exactly the same thing we accuse society of doing to us.

I will deal with the whole paragraph once we get this disatrous sentance out of the way.

that once we consider ourselves women

Sorry afraid always considered myself as such. maybe others take time to see themselves (deep down indide) as such, sure externally that takes time to change for many, but Marsha really ?
I am suprised you wrote sentance in that way..................now back to the point you raised.

Worst possible thing for who to do what? and in what Community ? there is no Trans community and no such animal exists, its an illusion created by the advent of the internet. There may be a loose coalition of women at different stages of their journeys.

I think the best possible thing is being able to melt into the general public wearing no badges of honour or being an activist . Quite the opposite and be just another women out there doing their thing. I belive the whole evangelising, educating and preaching aspect of many trans types is kind of like rubbing others noses in it.

As for helping others .............come on women like me have helped countless others down the years silently in the back ground yet living as myself not raising any noises and being accepted as one of the natals by natal women, in my view is a far more positive public relation excercise, than being a broadcaster of status and past physical history. Which i personally belive can cause more resentment.

Its a complex issue discussed at length in other Trans forums. between loud and proud and stealth. yet i am certain if all Trans women are honest 99% would be happy to melt into the world of womanhood unoticed and unread. The ones who make the biggest noises, are though not exclusivly, the unlucky ones biologically speaking who would have huge trouble passing lookwise ............. If they allowed the real woman out from within, would probably be easily accepted just by their personna and interaction with the world.

Now before there is any flaming or finger pointing here. I am not with any individual in mind especially on this or other sites...........but def an observation of mine of more than 20 years of mixing with the TG scene.

I havent abandoned any one... I was on this journey on my own did this journey on my own. Sure some contact via phone and mail to others like myself but afraid the illusion of community is where so many feel like they have been abandond when they discover there is actually no such community just an online affinity and various trans support groups and the like.

so after all the help and support I have offered others over the years Marsha should i not now be able to live my life free from dealing with others who are lost , needy,deluded, emotionally damaged etc etc all of whom and more i have delt with including attempted suicides ,alcoholism etc etc in my own time and own costs .................................So I have abandoned them all ? or have i actually freed my life from trouble, abuse and non appreciation from selfish types ( lets face it majority of trans have to be selfish and self focused to help themselves through such a journey).......................The thing is Marsha its for each individual to make their own choices.

The public gets to appreciate me as a cival servant doing lots of public help as a woman and judge me therefore on an individual basis which is as it should be and not on the basis of being trans. Those who seek that are indeed making the biggest mistake IMHO.


Sarah

Sarah, I think we often look at the same thing from different angles and the end result is often the same, how we get there varies. Like you eluded to towards the end of your last post is this is an individual thing. I do want to point out I am not an advocate of loud and proud nor special laws aimed at protecting us. I am actually more like you as to wanting to meld with society and that really is how my day to day life is. Probably the biggest difference is I am not concerned if someone should know or find that I am trans, nor am I going to avoid others if they are trans. It simply doesn't matter. By virtue of my business, hundreds of people know of my past. I believe I have changed a lot of views about TGs for the positive because of the person and the life I live.

As for abandoning the TG community, or in your words, online community, I don't believe you need to be vocal per se, but instead set an example for others to follow. Being successful is what we all want. My father's generation of TGs made it possible for us to live our lives as we do today, I want TGs down the road to have more opportunities than even we have had and with fewer problems. So in that sense I believe we do have a community. I believe setting a good example is an everyday thing that should never end. Being vocal here or elsewhere is something that maybe at times needs a break. In either case, I believe it is wrong to ignore others like us with similar challenges that are calling for help.

My transition has never been just about me.

Hugs,
Marsha

Hi all and all who joined in on this thread . This is where i bail out! i have read all the responses and we all have different views on life .
Our lives are all obviously different and of course we all have our own beliefs views and convictions (i have some of those lol ) , maybe it was a bit of a silly question to ask but its is nice to see how others feel about certain things and we all know there are so many things in our individual lives that make us think differently but thats no bad thing is it? anyway apart from a brain transplant nothing can change me or the life i have had so far , a life i have at times in the past wanted to end more than once but i am still here and happy after all the pain , now all i have to do is figure out "why" .

Hugs to all Julia xxx

Hi Marsha.

I believe it is wrong to ignore others like us with similar challenges that are calling for help.

A very Nobel attitude. One I certainly practiced. and good for you that your happy to be there should others require it. One fact for sure is many seek help (more often attention than actual help) but they either refuse to listen and act upon the advice they sought, and or usually up to or past 1 year into transitioning actually refuse to accept the advice claiming that you I or whoever is giving it wrong and are trying to stop them or put them down etc. Just like others in again any walk of life the truth hurts or is indigestible.

I am a straight taker who refuses to coat anything i have to say in a coating of sugur. I'll say it how it is rather bluntly, I do know how to talk to people after all so many open up and tell me all even stuff they have never told others when in my presence for an incredibly short amount of time. Its strange though I am willing to listen and process what is being told to me ............but often this is not reciprocated, not that i seek personal grandisement or heroine worship just that what has been said by me to them is listened to and thought about rather than be dismissed, after all they sought I not i them to preach at or too.

Yet again years of experience has shown me that many who do take the, for many difficult and challanging path to transition refuse to listen and hear advice and truths about what will be faced, from those who have been there.

Last year at one of my 6 monthly visits to the gender clinic (to remain on their books should any surgical proceedure be requested / desired by me) I was discussing my avoidance of the sector of trans people who do mentoring, form support groups and do stirling work on behalf of that " Trans community" he said to me " Ahh the proffesional transwomen"

I knew exactly what he ment, he understood why i would desire to distance myself from such things.
Because it ends up like a full time job. You wouldnt belive the number of Transitioners who either get pointed in my direction or through friends of friends of friends get in touch with me. I will listen to that they ask i give the relevant information but ask that they deal with trans support forums , groups and other portals including via the gender clinics and councellors doctors etc.

My example has been to be a successful happily intergrated woman in society. I dont deny my past history and always educate where and when it is pertitant too.

As with all aspects of knowledge we stand on the shoulders of our forebears. I have the greatest of respect of those who came before me and know how indebted I and others like are to them for changes in laws, medical proceedures treatments etc and its a continual ongoing thing. I do my small part where and when its required.

But i think ultimatly it can be a negative approach the trans people sticking together in much the same way it used to be by segregating deaf children / teens from their non deaf sibilings likewise physically handicapped, autistic etc etc groups of "different people" it reduces the chance of either party to be able to accept or be accepted and to intergrate properly.

As human beings we need at times support ,understanding someone to listen, to advise. To hug us pick us up when we are down to educate. I understand this some of us are stronger than others need no help forge ne paths open up frontiers, maybe people like that are better at breaking the new ground leaving it for others to follow and set up the campsites, start the building of a town farm the food etc etc etc sorry for the metaphor but a rather apt one i think.

So one thing i am willing to agree upon is simply this.

We are responsible for ourselves. We are responsible for the society we are part of. We should all be excellent to each other ( thanks Bill & Ted )

But at the end of the day Reality Bites.

Sarah.

Sarah, you and I are so similar, yet so different. You know I am very opinionated and very blunt. I often take a great deal of criticism for the opinions I express. I can only express my opinions, what I see right in my life. Whether or not anyone listens or learns from my experiences is both immeasurable and irrelevant. I am not trying to create Marsha clones. But I believe if my experience can help one person, then it is worth expressing. There may have been a time in my life that my life somewhat revolved around being TG, but as I mentioned elsewhere, my life is returning to a more routine one now. As for being a professional TG, I know what you mean and my answer to that is no, I don't want to hold up the flag for the cause, I have my life to live.

I have read your posts and reread them and it just kind of hit me what is going on. You tell people what they should do and when they don't jump to attention and follow your suggestions you take it personally. Often times we don't really know what the outcome of our conversations are. Maybe today or this month they have no use for our advice, however down the road what was told to them today begins to make sense. I am optimistic, that is how I live my life and why I feel I have had a successful transition. Pessimism breeds failure.

I think you are way to early in believing TGs should be independent of a community or group. Ideally down the road we may see more integration into society, but until society universally opens up to us it will be a slow process. It is the same thing as the blacks went through here in America before the civil rights protests. Nothing changed until they united and made white America take notice. Our problem right now is that there are not enough of us for society to notice. So gals who can reasonably pass like you and me can do fine, but for the community as a whole or the concept of one gender changing to the other just isn't universally accepted right now.

Hopefully everything you have said will bear out over time. Just at this moment, you are ahead of our time.

Hugs,
Marsha
.

Hi all .
I said i was bailing out here but heres just a few thanks and comments i need to make .

Penny thank you! as a close nieghbour i must say thanks for your constuctive input , don,t bang your head to hard though lol .

Anna Marie another close nieghbour thank you too but for my own reasons i will not be going as i just can,t find the time now anyway.

Janis. i am not twice shy! shyness is not a weakness of mine but thanks for stating the obvious about my sexual assault.

Sarah . No disrespect to you but this is a transgender site so however much you tell yourself you are female "you are transexual" , if you can,t accept there is a transgender community you realy are on the wrong website , you were born in a male body just like myself , i am female "but" i accept i am transexual as theres no getting away from it.

Ali . thank you and what a sweet story too .

Marsha . Thank you you raised some very interesting points about being transexual and how different we all are .

Simone .Thanks but i don,t go in chat rooms so i can,t discuss anything at length.

So thats it end of tread this is where i realy bail out . Thanks again too all Julia xx

Thanks Julia for your nice comments.

I only speek my mind just as you and everyone else has the freedom to do so. Dont worry about me if i come over as if i am banging my head too hard lol. I have a very strong and passionate disposition and I am who I am, i cant help that. My point is i dont want to change you or affect you in a way that doesnt suit you, I just would like you to consider and understand my perspective and add that to your knowledge of life, as I do mine. does that make sense lol? what i am trying to say is, no one is really wrong because their outlook on life suits them. the trick for me is there is always room for further knowledge, understanding different ways of looking at things and general understanding. I think there is a difference in trying to hone in on who oneself is and who everyone else is. maybe these are thoughts i am openly able to talk about when slightly inebriated and embracing my difficulties that i have had with my identity.

i dont mind getting drunk, seems to entertain some!
lots of love and hugs xxx
more hugs xxxx
penny
x
another hug x

im sure i had a point to say but i just read back and what a load of tosh, dont worry, i have good practise at apologising which will occur tomorrow, hugs x

Hi Julia,

I guess my experiences are a bit different than yours. I'm a CD who lives her life pretty much full-time andro. I don't get out too much any more but when I do it's mostly where there are other TGs.

There are probably TG specific venues here in the US, but I've never been to one. When I go out it is usually to a TG friendly gay bar. I've never had the hand between the legs thing you described, probably because most of the patrons are looking for someone much more masculine than I am. (If it did happen and the person didn't stop after a polite refusal, they'd go home with a black eye, LOL).

I have been to a couple of Female Impersonator Clubs (I guess the PC term these days is Female Impressionist) like the old Queen Mary out in the San Fernando Valley. I tended to avoid the girls at the bar who were looking to get picked up. I enjoyed the shows and mostly mixed with the straight part of the audience.

I've gone to Pride Parades in Los Angeles and San Francisco, which were fun because almost anything goes and you can really let your hair down like you wouldn't in polite company.

I'm nervous and uncomfortable in the "normal" world and almost never go out by myself. My preference is to go out with a GG friend. I occasionally go out with another TG but only if I know her well enough to trust she won't do anything outrageous that would call attention to me or embarrass me. I just want to blend in, preferably unnoticed in the crowd.

Best,
Melody

Julia.

You are not alone! From the time I started transition 10yrs ago I felt much the same when going to a TG venue.

The only thing I can say in defense of such places is that virtually every club I have ever visited is much the same, a cattle market. Perhaps different clothes and various genders, sexualities and persuasions, but essentially just the same. Ok, the approach might be different, as will be the personal interrogation, but otherwise everything is as it ever was.

I will very occasionally go to an event to meet up with friends, but it is a bit of an ordeal unless there are a reasonable number of you, and you stick together - though many go for exactly the reasons we dislike such places and wander off to do their own thing. At which point I tend to leave.

I too would rather go to my local.

Julia, if you're thinking of Doing Suffolk Pride this year then GO for it girl. I went to the first one last year and had a great time mixing with peeps i felt right at home with. The Website has lots of info on what goes on, so take a look& you might be pleasantly suprised.


http://www.suffolkpride.co.uk/



Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna-Marie