A couple of days ago, Donna Highland posted in the thread Re: Is it right to ask? the following:

I heard an interesting interview yesterday. The person interviewed was part of a protest against how some of the G8 G20 Countries were against GLB people. This person stated she excluded Transsexuals because they are a gender.
It was nice to hear that we are being recognized as a Gender now ... and not a "persuasion"

Thank you Donna, I needed to hear that I wasn't the only one that feels that way.

For several years, I had a "Partner" level membership in the Human Rights Campaign © . I cancelled my HRC membership to save money when I was laid off this last spring. They actually called to see if they could get me to change my mind. I thanked them for all they've done, I told them I frequently consult their HRC Buying for Equality Guide and their HRC Corporate Equality Index when I choose where to spend my money, in support of LGBT-friendly businesses, and avoid those who are not. I also told them that I used their publications in my own transition; the materials were really helpful.

Yet they persisted.

I told them, "Look, I'm transsexual. And I don't feel that TS/TG people are really in the same situation as gays, lesbians, and bi-sexuals. It's not the same thing, it's a totally different situation. Even though I live in the San Francisco area, I don't quite "feel the love". Even here, I don't feel that TS/TG are fully integrated into the gay community. In my opinion, their best interests are not always in my best interest. So, no I will not reconsider withdrawing from HRC."

In a strictly chromosomal definition, I'm XY, and I like other XY's, so technically, I'm homosexual. Personally, I don't feel "gay", because I've always been female.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm still 100% in favor of supporting the LGB (and T) communities, but I'm also 100% behind any other group of human beings that are being denied their basic human rights as well.

Anyone else feel as I do? That is: Transsexuals are a gender, not a persuasion.

hugs! to you Nicole

In the immortal words of Popeye the Sailor
"I am what I am...and that's all what I am"
-------------------------------------------------------------

"and my needs entwined like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway...some where... in the night"

LOL, before I even read this thread you will see that in the "Is it right to ask?" thread I state that I believe we are a third gender. I'm not against the idea we can have a sexual identity to go along with our gender identity, but the first thing required to identify ones sexual identity is what is their gender. That is where society is missing the boat and until someone turns the light on so they can see this is about gender not sex, we will continue to have difficult times with society.
Hugs,
Marsha

"A persuasion"?
Yes.
I've never regarded myself as being anything else but female.

"A gender"?
It's still male/female in the procreation stakes unfortunately so I don't think TG's are a gender.

Hiya, Its difficult to know where transsexual lays in the scheme of things. For me this topic is all about pigeonholes and cliques. My observation is that people seem to want to "belong" to a group or social circle.

When someone asks what am I, I reply, a human being (dont laugh!). I dont like to say I am this type of person or that type of person because with labels comes a whole lot of description that people may have that might not represent me at all. So I always describe myself the long way.

I wouldnt say transsexual is an orientation as you can have gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals who may or may not be transsexual.

I wouldnt say transsexual is a gender either. It is my understanding that gender can be described in 3 ways, male, female and androgyne (there might be a preferred way to describe people who do not identify as male or female so I hope im not being offensive in my lack of education.) You can have people of these gender definitions who may or may not be transsexual.

So, where does transsexual come into things? For me, its just a way to describe that my internal gender is different to my external gender. I see transsexual as a term that is used to describe a complication that has a medical treatment.

My personal preference on referring to myself as a transsexual is I would say I became a transsexual when I became a woman legally and I will no longer be a transsexual once I have had SRS? (im not sure about that) I did describe myself as a transsexual before I legally became a woman. I'm not sure at which point one is cured of gender dsyphoria or if SRS is the final hurdle (I have yet to live that experience.) In the future I would describe myself that I had gender dsyphoria and used to be a transsexual. That doesnt mean I will profess to "be a real woman" lol or cut myself off from the community.

I wonder how similar or different your understanding of transsexual is? One has to be careful using labels. I am sure some peoples view of a transsexual is someone who is mental and needs to be euthanised or undergo ECT.

Much Love
Penny
x

There is no third sex ( there is no third sex in nature) and to try to create one just so you can distance yourself from others in society with whom you do not wish to be associated, is a nonsense. It is also a denial of everything we believe ourselves to be. We are no longer women who have had to endure a biological misfortune but wish to live our lives as the people we really are, but instead something separate, neither man nor woman, but transsexual. Something that is the creation of the surgeons scalpel, and nothing else will do. Such a vision, if it can be called such, is both narrow-minded and self-defeating. There is a trend for some among us to use their condition, their being, and their very existence, as an excuse and a vehicle with which to voice their own petty bigotry and prejudices. It all just leads to puffed up egos, the preening of feathers, a lack of understanding, and an absence of love. It is the blind leading the blind into the chamber of the constant echo eternal in its defeaning silence.

I think Penny makes a lot of good points. Gender dysphoria, transgender and transsexual are just terms that other people who think they have all the answers, call us. As Penny described it we are just individuals who identify as one gender on the inside and a different one on the outside. Personally I don't see it as needing to be cured of anything because that suggests that something was wrong in the first place. I think saying we are a third gender or just another gender is close enough. What does it really matter if we are one or the other of the two common genders? Just as someone might choose their own hairstyle or fashions, what is so wrong about us choosing a gender for living our life that makes us more comfortable and fits the gender that we naturally identify with?

As I approach my own scheduled SRS, reading some of the more recent threads here at GS has really got me thinking. For all intense purposes I will have completed my transition physically, so will I be trans anything? Maybe the simple and right answer for anyone asking is "I live my life as a woman." That is an honest answer that does not imply I was born a genetic female. There is no sexuality connotation, just a simple fact about how I live my life.

Hugs,
Marsha

I see lots of interesting thoughts expressed here. I wasn't looking for controversy, just some different opinions, to perhaps help me to better verbalize how I feel, and an appropriate response when asked, "Are you a man, a woman, or what?" (That could be it's own topic, or have we done that one before?)

I cringed a bit when I read the words gender and persuasion used in the statement beginning this topic. I'm not so sure that either word were the best choices.

I tend to favor the following definition of gender.
Gender- The socially-constructed concepts of masculinity and femininity; the “appropriate” qualities or characteristics that are expected to accompany each biological sex. --University of Texas at El Paso, Office of Equal Opportunity

And perhaps Sexual Orientation may have been a better choice of words than persuasion.
Sexual Orientation- A person's predisposition or inclination toward a particular type of sexual activity or behavior; heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality. (ibid.)

LABELS, LABELS, LABELS... I don't like labels, because we are just who we are, not what we are called. Naming things enables us to differentiate between them, but names are words, and words easily give rise to confusion. They do not replace the thing or direct experience of the thing which they name, but only represent or describe it. --Stanley Rosenthal (Shi-tien Roshi) British School of Zen Taoism, Cardiff, September 1984

TS/TG is after-all, not a sexual orientation, or a persuasion.

Transgender (using the definition above) would be one that is moving from one social-construct to the other; a social movement. Which may be fluid (i.e. crossdressing), or become static (a permanent transition, i.e. TS).
Transsexual would be more of a physical move, from one's natal body anatomy to that of the other sex.

Third sex? I don't really like that one either. I think more along the lines of "none of the above", "neutral" or "neither". I just don't use it. I prefer the old adage: "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck."

Some have said that transition is never fully complete, or that a Transwoman is always Trans. Perhaps. However, I feel that my journey is nearly complete.