Hiya, Another thread has got me thinking that my opinions may be a little harsh towards people who have a different ethos towards being transgendered and sexuality.

I will explain how I feel and then I would really appreaciate your comments and insight. This is how I currently feel...

I tend to get offended by non-gay admirers who seem to be pre-occupied with what’s in between my legs. Now to me, that is just a gay man who is in denial of being gay and referring to themselves as a tranny admirer is just a way to cop out of dealing with their true sexuality.

I have heard many admirers say they aren’t gay because they cant see themselves going with another man but they want to enjoy male genitalia so going with a tranny allows them to be with a woman who has male genitalia. But how do they know the tranny they are with is not just a bloke dressed up as a woman for sexual pleasure?

I have met many trannies who guzzle pints and talk about cars and football all night and they did try to hit on me for what I guess would be gay sex. Thats great, everyone has that freedom. I know I sound like I am whinging and hitting out at these people but my point is, I accept these people, they have the freedom to live their lives as they chose, what annoys me is they way they treat me!

I've had gay sex in the past and it was quite enjoyable but I realised that it wasn’t the answer I was looking for because I was expected to perform as a bloke and with my level of gender dsyphoria I would rather kill myself than be forced to even consider assuming a male role of any kind. That was years before I even knew what transgender was let alone understanding I am transgendered.

The internet is great for discussing stuff one wouldn’t in the real world and learning a greater insight into everything really helps in understanding oneself a lot more. I have friends who refer to themselves as gender queer and gay trannies and they are happy to assume gay relationships with admirers who want gay sexual experiences. We have a great laugh when we go out because they seem to accept me for who I am.

I realise, that with my frame, the likelihood of having sex as a woman is remote and the only chance I might get of having sex would be in a gay relationship. As that is not the answer to my gender dsyphoria I have long known and accepted that I will probably never enjoy intimacy with anyone ever again or sex for that matter.

My point is, there seems to be a lot of people out there in the transgender community whose no1 priority seems to be about sex and not actually about gender. Im not a prude or in denial or think anyone else should deny their urges. Its always been on the cards but it just has never been a priority for me. The more people I meet and make friends with in the transgender community the more I realise how little I have in common with anyone. I’m not saying everyone is or pointing out any individual, it’s just my observation on the whole. I am beginning to wonder if I am actually only just an outsider to the trans community? I am happy to be a part of the transgender community and I have many friends, it just seems my perspective is from the outside. Could it be that this is how hormones make you feel? Or is it a case that I am just not similar to the majority of transgendered people?

What are your comments and insights into how I feel?
Love
Penny
x

Penny, you simply MUST stop invading my thoughts. I've actually had this same exact thing on my mind lately. It happens when I get really lonely and I decide to see where the boys are. It's amazing how their questions preceed. Usually, it's something like this:

1. Are you CD or TS? I swear, even after asking that question, they still get everything wrong, wrong, wrong. I think that they like the fact that our skin is soft like a girl's, we have breasts, a female shape, etc. but then they move to the next questions and it all starts to go wrong.

2. Are you pre-op or post-op. On one occasion when I was approached by a friend of a friend and he started holding my hand (silly a$$) and asked that question. He was obviously hitting on me so I thought I'd have some fun so I said "I'm post-op." He lost interest within seconds. I swear I saw all the lust evaporate from him. I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing.

3. Does "it" still work? Usually, I am half feeling sick and half feeling like crying at this point. Of course this question depends on "pre-op" as an answer to the last question. If I'm not interested (and when THAT question is asked, the lust is usually gone from MY eyes too) I say something about how "it" shrinks down to nothing. Plus I sometimes sayy something like: "I'm soft all over...including THERE."

Of course there have been different permutations, like "Are you a REAL woman yet?" Or "I want to bring you home for my wife so you can fukc her too." Fukcing King of missing the point?

I get lonely like I'm sure you do, Penny. Like most of us do. This thing we have to deal with, it's a curse. I've heard the "best of both worlds" bullsh1t and that's exactly what it is, bullsh1t. What really makes me mad is the assumption that we must ALWAYS want it. LIke we are these cyborgs, built to think about sex and only sex. And when I have rejected guys, the look they give me is priceless. Kind of a "Who the hell do you think you are? You can't reject me, I'm a NORMAL person." Right. Because wanting to be screwed by a girl is sooooooo normal.

Z

HI Penny,

You have expressed a number of thoughts that have been going through my mind as well. It gets very confusing at times, keeping my Gender Identity and Sexual preference in check. As a TG MTF, deep in my heart there is no doubt that I'm a woman. However, having grown up in male role, there are "learned" behaviors that have been ingrained in me. When I close my eyes and dream, confusion sometimes sets in. Sometimes I find myself dreaming of being with life partners who are men and other times with women.

That is when the internal questions come furiously to my consciousness. What is my sexual preference? As a woman inside, do I long for a woman to man relationship or woman to woman relationship? Is it my real preference or just "Learned" behavior kicking in? For now, that is an unanswered question for me.

BTW Penny: Thanks for being a gal willing to express her opinions openly!

Take care,

Michelle Lynn

Penny,
Very well written!! You seem to have identified a major problem - the differentiation between emotional needs, physical needs, and inner gender identity.
Zoe and Michelle have replied with some "all too true" experiences that we all have (or will have) to deal with.
What we must realize is that many heterosexual people (straight males and females) and everybody in between, can also experience lack of intimacy in their lives. Many are ashamed to admit it. Many are frigid because of circumstances in their lives that are no fault of their own.
I realize how disgusted most of us girls can feel when some guy still wants to treat us as a gay guy, but if that is what he wants - then that is where his needs lie. It is up to us to make sure he knows our wishes before things get too advanced. It is up to us to realized that, like many other people, we may never find a great "significant other" and we may end up very lonely in this life.
We all know how many young "unwed Mothers" are out there and the majority of them were just looking for acceptance - and were willing to hop in bed with almost anybody just to attain that feeling. Are we willing to do that as well? ...
When I meet someone, before things get to the point of intimacy, I let that person know exactly where I stand and if he has any other intentions, or expectations, I just walk away... It may mean that I lose out on a potential lover...but at least I don't feel "dirty" and I have kept my gender identity (and self esteem) in tact.
------------------------------------------------------

"and my needs entwined, like ribbons of light...and I came through the doorway, some where... in the night"

Gee i had to reread this entire post a couple times. I am having the exact same issues with my self. So I guess most of us on here, or some of us are quite simular then. I have had dreams and thoughs of being married to a man, and have also thought about being married to a woman. To be hoenst I amnot sure yet and tell most admirers that sex is NOT my goal so if someone wishes to date me, sex is probably NOT going to happen the first date. So I don't date much for because as other have mentioned previously, many just want to date tranny so they don't feel they are gay! but want to play with my male aprts???

So for now I am just focusing on learning to be me, and improve my apperance and mannerisms etc......

Just my Canadian 5 cents worth

Brenda

Fantastic topic Penny. I think as controversial as I have been at times, it is our similar belief in gender that has always allowed you to better understand me. My circumstances having my wife and family intact have helped shape how I see my future. My wife will be the first to say she is not lesbian, so since I will be having my surgery in a couple months, that should clarify our sexual relationship. If I was on my own I would probably look at the sexuality question a little different, but because I'm not on my own, my focus is truly on my relationship with my wife.

I think a lot of assumptions are made about us. First and foremost is this is a gay thing which I think Penny made clear is completely wrong as a true TG mtf wants to be treated as a woman(IMHO). I hear it from all sorts of people, "Do you have a boyfriend?" or "Are you going to be lesbian?" Everything is sexual to the onlooker. Michelle Hart, our illustrious Tribune columnist, has had a number of columns over the years pointing out that successful relationships are rare for transsexuals and that includes for the most attractive of us. None of that means it is impossible to have one, but it is rare because most guys either want the male genitals, or they just want to try out the novelty of a post op TS. If they wanted a woman, they may as well stick to women.

Accepting you may never have a committed relationship, as Penny has stated starting off this thread, is a major milestone in a TS's transition. It clearly acknowledges that being who you were meant to be is far more important than anything else in life. Conveying that to the onlooker is something that because they can never experience the feeling, is something they may never understand.

So to answer your questions Penny.
1. Are you an outsider? Nope, you are just like so many of the others who have transitioned before you.
2. Is this because of hormones? Nope, hormones give you the confidence that your journey is underway and allow you to show a side of you that you always had. They may change you physically, but they don't make you a woman, you already are one.
3. Are you just different than other TGs? We are all different and there is no majority or more right group. From what I am reading in your post you are very much like many others including myself. LOL, did I just ruin your day? Hope not.

Hugs,
Marsha

These are fascinating issues that you raise, Penny. I had a discussion today about why boys lag behind girls at school. After listening to a number of fairly predictable views, I said, coming from our unique perspective, that it is perhaps psychological. Boys grow up wanting to be men, girls grow up having to learn to become women. They have to learn how to do their hair, how to apply their makeup, how to wear often dysfunctional clothing, and how to walk in heels. Becoming a woman is a learning process, becoming a man is a matter of time. I was born a boy and raised as a man, though I was never either. I had to learn how to be a woman later, I am still learning now and I always will be. This is why no one appreciates more being a woman than a transgendered man. But I have always dated as a woman, I have always made love as a woman, and in this respect my genitalia has always been irrelevant or neutral. I have endured the pain of my lover bemoaning the fact that the woman they thought they went to bed with wasn't the one they woke up with. I have had that push away and that hasty exit, and I don't pretend for one moment that it does not hurt. Of course it does. Though I would never tell them that. But I have learned that lesson. The only lover I consider now is another transgendered person. Because that is the only person I could ever truly be myself with. There would be no unreasonable expectations to live up to, no reason to feel shame, no desire to undermine. We would dress together, makeup together, and undress together. No supposedly straight men wanting a chick with a dick before they toddle of home to their unsuspecting wives. Not anymore, I know what I want. Genuine affection, love and respect for the person I am. I won't get that from people who cannot truly understand or empathise with who I am, or simply want me to be the prostitute for their own secret, and what they consider, perverse sexual desires.

I know that does'nt really answer any of your questions, Penny, but I hope you find someone who will simply adore you, not for the woman, but the person you are. It is not nice t ever imagine that you will forever be alone. That is my destiny. I take no pleasure in it, and would never wish it upon another.

Porscha's post makes so much sense that I think it only complicates matters. How does the TS who gives up everything; family, friends, finances, job, etc., and fully goes through transition with hormones and surgery so she can be the "woman" she is, accept that her best chance at having a relationship is with another TG? I have met a number of TS gals that are so "I AM WOMAN" and expect to be treated that way including a heterosexual relationship you have to wonder if they can ever be happy.
Hugs,
Marsha

Great post Penny, I feel the same way. I don't want to offend men that are Trannie Admirers but for me personally I have no interest in being involved with them. Because I am pre-op the last thing I want is someone that's interested because of that. That would gross me out. What others do is their business, I'm not judging but for me that is not happening. I've had daydreams about finding a wonderful man you wants me despite of my genitals but honestly I don't know if that is realistic. A straight man wants a woman with a vagina or one would assume he's gay. I identify as hetrosexual female. But I realize that sex isn't very important to me. I've been considering that I could be in a relationship with another woman. Post-op gals may have more insights on what it's like from the other side. I don't think any transgender woman should involve herself with anyone that makes her uncomfortable or ashamed. I've been lonely too for a longtime. It can be difficult but I focus elsewhere.
'

I have had several relationships with trans girls and one relationship with a trans guy. There is definitely an appeal to dating another trans person. All of the stereotypes that people saddle us with are gone. There is a basic level of understanding that is immediately breached. Of course the bad part is that we DO tend to have similar problems and two trans folks together can multiply that. Both can be depressed, have self worth and self confidence issues. Issues with men and even mild paranoia.

The more I go along, the more it seems like finding a soul mate for me is going to be about equal to the chances of being hit by lightning.

Z

Penny...cool thread!!!

I have met a guy who is a lot more than a "admirer"...I asked him "why us, why me"? He emailed me a letter he had written to a TS GF of his a few years back...with his permission, I am pasting his letter!!!

There is hope girls...there ARE real people, open minded ones filled with the right stuff that view us a people and will love us for just who we are...

Hope you gain some inspiration from this if you doubt it...



"Traci - I have dated a few tgs over the last 5 years or so years. I also have had an on-and-off relationship for many years with a genetic girl (which, by the way is permanently off, now). And, well tg's are just plain more fun!

I was once asked by a tg that I went out with what is was about tgs that made me attracted to them. Here is the answer that I gave her:

------------(the letter to his friend)

...after much soul-searching, hand wringing, and mental gymnastics,
here is my feeble attempt to answer your question:

I first found about TSs prior to going to Singapore some time back. I was
incredibly intrigued at the time, but when I finally visited there, I wasn't
secure enough to seek out and meet any. I took me a long time to get over
the social fears.

Since then, I have often wondered why I find myself attracted to TSs. But I
always told myself that it was a lot like self-psycho-analysis; its really
hard to second-guess your own thoughts -- you'll go crazy trying to do that!
So, I typically wouldn't dwell too long on the root cause of my attraction,
but now that I have to put my thoughts down in words, its much more
challenging.

Here is what I decided:

The key to your answer lies in the definition of "beauty". I imagine that
there are two kinds of beauty; an outward (or physical) beauty and an inner
beauty that is not physical (i.e. you can't really touch it). The two can
compliment each other so that the whole measure of beauty is greater than
the sum of the two individual parts.

The physical part is fairly self-evident. As the saying goes, "beauty is in
the eye of the beholder". Although there are societal norms for beauty, each
individual has his own preference. As for me, one element that I have always
been attracted to is physically fit women, especially fitness competitors.
Women body-builders for the most part were too far over the top. I never
cared for the very masculine ones; and those women bodybuilders that took
hormones looked hideous. But, I like a little muscular toning in my women. I
love to give massages, and having something besides skin and bones is soooo
much more fun to massage. (Read into that sentence what you may!)

I love clothes on women. Clothes can make or break a woman. It always pisses
me off that women have so much more variety and options in clothes than men
do. Women can change the power that they wield over men just by changing their
clothes. Personally, I have always believed that I can tell everything I
need to know about a woman by her shoes. I would guess that TSs are more
sensitive to their physical presence, so would tend to really put in that
extra effort to wear clothes that add to their image -- accentuating their
best physical attributes and telegraphing their inner beauty.

I like taller women. I like slow dancing; hips-to-hips and lips-to-lips. TS's
again have an advantage.

The only common descriptor to the women that I tend to be attracted to is
'striking'. Here is where clothes (to include shoes and accessories) can
help create that striking look. TS's definitely fall into that category of
being striking -- and being so in such a variety of ways.

But it's that inner beauty where TSs seem to melt my heart. I think about
how hard it was for me to overcome social issues to finally get up the nerve
and meet one. I cannot fathom the anguish that you must have gone through,
and the personal strength that it took to make the transformation that you
did. My impression is that coming from where you were, to finally be in a
'place' where you are happy with yourself must give you a sense of inner
peace, strength, and contentment that permeates your entire being. That
desire to be who you are, alluring, beautiful, content with yourself, is the
greatest contributor to your overall beauty. It radiates out from your soul.
It shows in your demeanor, the way you smile, the way that you carry
yourself, throughout your entire being.

The last topic is that of the 'feminine mystique'. Men love mysterious
women. I don't think that I have to expand on that fact, and TSs have the
corner on that market. You can just tell that there is something mysterious
about them. One time in Key West I saw this woman, and I just couldn't keep
my eyes off of her. She was dining in the same restaurant where I was eating
dinner. I saw her twice more (in two different bars) after that on the same
night. (Unfortunately, she was with a guy, so I didn't want to impose). She
seemed so mysterious. It wasn't until the third time that I saw her that I
realized that she was a TS. Believe me it was only after a lot of
surreptitious looking that I could tell. The suddenly realization just made
me crazy. I was so captivated!

I may be out to lunch, but these are the conclusions that I have come to
today. You can tell me if I am full of bs, but in my brain that is the world
that I have constructed. "

It sure brightened my day!

Traci

WOW, nicely written and at least gives his views.

i have been told by some admirers that ts women always try to look their best where many gg women let themselves go once in a long realtionship. Not too sure I totally believe this line but I have been told it several times by unrelated people so who knows....

Brenda

Melody, Zoe, and several others , THANK YOU for dissussing this subject in such a DIGNIFIED and insiteful manner ! I have about had it with some of the TRANNY- NAZIS I have come to have had to deal with lately . In my book all of ya ROCK !!!!!!! ellen

I think it comes down to 4 main things,
1) what gender YOU identify with
2) what gender your "partner" identifies with
3) which gender EACH person wishes to be with and,
4) EACH of you should be comfortable with the first three items

after that is established... it should be simple.

* if you don't want the other person to "fixate" on your "dangly bits" ...then should should make that perfectly clear to them
* if there are certain things you do not wish to do...then you should also make that perfectly clear to them.
* if the other person does not respect your wishes...then it's "time to move on"...just like any other relationship.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The vagabond who's rapping at your door ... is standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Strike another match, go start anew ...and it's all over now, Baby Blue."

OK Well i am still very confused as to my direction. I have been going out on a few dates with men and although i love going out and being treated like a lady, i don't have a great sexual attraction to them.....i think i am still more attracted to women, but really just totally confused still.

I do enjoy blending in more now. When i go out on a date i am no longer worries about troubles or whatever..I get treated uite well from both women and men so that is good but still no idea about sexual interest and thinking that hormones are lessening my drive?

Hugs to all

Brenda

Yuck. Had another disaster date with a guy. I had met him five minutes earlier and he's got his hand down my pants. Now I LOVE sex, but can I get your name first? WTF? Okay, I now believe that the only way to have a relationship with a man is to find someone who doesn't know at all, get him interested and then drop the bomb on him. Sorry, but Tranny Admirers are all the same on a basic level. They just want a girl with a dick and I'm not alright with that. I want a freakin' boyfriend, not just a sex partner.

Z

I am an MTF TS who is dating a lesbian. What the hell does that make me? Other than satisfied, that is.

Hi Penny,

I've found the internet to be a very mixed blessing. I've found a wonderful safe place here at TGS. At other sites I've been subjected to all kinds of inappropriate sexual advances from people I barely know. Interestingly, I've had more harassment from "girls" who claim to be TG than from TA's. I don't want to know their submissive fantasies about penetration into their a$$/puss1es" or how big their "c0ck/cl1ts" are. I really don't.

Not that I haven't had the usual male pervs who want to know about everything from my TG status to my preference in undies. One particularly gross "admirer" wanted to know about my relationship with my dogs, we both raise Labs - god knows what he does to his....

In person, I've not had too many problems with TA's. Maybe because I'm 6' and over 200 lbs. I've put up with decades of being called gay, even tho I really don't have any (sexual) attraction to males. Some say that is because of how I was raised. Could be - growing up in the 1950's Western USA was probably very different from coming of age in the 1980's or 1990's in the UK. Just never was into guys. Not saying that anyone else's preferences aren't just as valid as mine.

I've personally pretty much given up on the idea of an intimate relationship with another person as I approach 60 years of age. Would be very happy if it happened, but odds are very much against it...

Best,
Melody














































































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