For the sake of this second poll, let's say homosexuals and bisexuals are allowed to serve in the military. How would you go about it?



Total disclosure should be required.
It's not the government's business.


Back to the main military topic: click here.

Hi All from the UK

I'm new to this site so i haven't quite worked out how to post properly on the forum, must be a blonde thing.

I have just left the Army after 26 years, not sure at the maths being only 21. We can now come out in whatever manner we wish, whether thats Trans, Gay, Lesbian or Bi. That is truly a step in the right direction and the Military here in many ways is ahead of many private organisations, this may be something to do with the military being aware that they can be sued for discrimination but i'm not argueing there.

What is a bit more difficult is the reaction you get from your work colleagues. You can put as many laws in place to force equality as you want, but you cant force people to to accept it. The Military is a very macho environment where most of those who join are macho and many assosiate this with homophobic. I think as time goes on and we are more accepted in civilian life and the new generation of soldier comes from this life that we will be better accepted. This will happen i think but it will take a long time.

Katrina x

Homosexuals and bisexuals have always been allowed to serve in the military.

Hi Janis

I dont think that they have been allowed to serve legally until quite recently, even though there were always serving members who were Gay or Bi. They kept themselves under the radar pretty much, i can actually remember a lad getting beaten because my room mates thought he was gay back in 1984. A link for you to have a quick look at states that it was illegal: Proud2Serve But even as a serving member i really didn't know a lot about military law.

Katrina x

Janis

Can find any law if you know where to find it and interpretet it. Silly to make open statements when it was even illegal in civilian life up until the 1960's


Though the Armed Forces Act does not mention homosexuality, it is illegal under sections 45 and 46 (a) of the Army Act, 1950, and the Air Force Act, 1950, which deal with "unbecoming conduct" and "any disgraceful conduct of a cruel, indecent or unnatural kind".
Offenders are liable to face court martial. They may also be cashiered or suffer other punishment. to endure imprisionment within a military prison not to exceed 20 years. subsequently being discharged with disgrace
The Navy Act, 1957, makes "indecent act" and "unbecoming conduct" illegal, which effectively includes homosexuality.

UPdate on Queens Regulations

Long established British military policy, embodied in Queen's Regulation 2905, was to exclude and/or discharge homosexuals from the armed forces has been under review for some years. That has now changed as a result of a ruling on 27th September 1999 by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in cases brought by four homosexual ex-Service personnel against the MoD ( Lustig-Prean & Beckett v UK and Smith & Grady v UK 1999 IRLR 734).

The Secretary of State announced in the House of Commons on 12th January 2000 that "with effect from today, homosexuality will no longer be a bar to service in Britain's Armed Forces" and introduced a new Code of Conduct for the british armed forces based on a new "Service Test" of acceptable conduct,

The House of Lords held that as a matter of general law discrimination on grounds of "sexual orientation" (ie homosexuality) is not unlawful - see MacDonald v Advocate General for Scotland 2003 UKHL 34 House of Lords on 19th June 2003. However new rules were introduced with effect from 1st December 2003 to change this. They ensure that discrimination on grounds of "sexual orientation" is unlawful in an employment context save in special circumstances (see the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 SI 2003/1661 and see notes at Sex discrimination/homosexuals & transsexuals ).

Stevie--

Total disclosure should be required.

After all, I'd want to know who's straight.

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Trust me there are more hidden closets in the military than ever. I suppose all the training we had in Camoflage and Concealment was worthwhile. I remained hidden for all of my time except to a few close friends. Though strangely i was hit on a few times over the years by closet Gay Soldiers, i must have been throwing out somne kind of vibe.

Katrina xxx

I have a friend who is transitioning in the Royal Navy. I will send her a message and ask if she would like to comment about her experiences.

I have other friends in the forces and they have all been great towards me.

In general I find the majority are fine with LBGT people as they understand everyone has the right to be free. Unfortunately, there is always going to be a section of society who will be bigots and create stigma and unease towards people who are different. The only way society can protect everyone's freedom is to protect everyone through law and hopefully more of the bigots will get the message.

It took me a lot of years to accept myself so I understand how difficult it might be for others on a similar path of discovery and for those who have no comprehension whatsoever. When someone is being disrespectful towards me like asking inappropriate questions I tend to say "You don’t need to understand, you just need to accept."

Love
Penny
X

The Secretary of State announced in the House of Commons on 12th January 2000 that "with effect from today, homosexuality will no longer be a bar to service in Britain's Armed Forces" and introduced a new Code of Conduct for the british armed forces based on a new "Service Test" of acceptable conduct,

The House of Lords held that as a matter of general law discrimination on grounds of "sexual orientation" (ie homosexuality) is not unlawful - see MacDonald v Advocate General for Scotland 2003 UKHL 34 House of Lords on 19th June 2003.

The emphasis on the ruling that discrimination was NOT unlawful

However new rules were introduced with effect from 1st December 2003 to change this. They ensure that discrimination on grounds of "sexual orientation" is unlawful in an employment context save in special circumstances (see the Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 SI 2003/1661 and see notes at Sex discrimination/homosexuals & transsexuals ).

Only reason I have reposted this and highlightened certain sections, was because several people said I was talking rubbish and the celebrations of a landmark change in the law and celebrations are WEF 2002.to me like most of the GRA and the EHRA until thety are ratified by the UK goverment basically wrong. And under ''The unless special circumstances'' appertain, is ambiguous and can be enforced at ay time. The Armed forcesw like the church, when it suits them, Under Military law, I have discovered a clause, Section 69 of the Army act, which is rather funny7, conduct contrary to the good order a breach of military discipline bringing the army into disrepute and any behavour contrary to such. So should imagine holding hands on trooping of the colour and kissing whilst in uniform would still be an offence.

Many years ago when I was in the army Section 40 of Queens Regulations was a similarly worded clause. In essence if an "offence" was not covered in any other clause Section 40 was used.

Homosexuals and Bisexuals have always been allowed to serve in the military, as long as they kept quiet about it!
Making something "against the law" doesn't mean it will somehow magically vanish.
I think it's great that gay people in the armed forces seem to be standing up for themselves.

Homosexuals and Bisexuals have always been allowed to serve in the military, as long as they kept quiet about it!
Making something "against the law" doesn't mean it will somehow magically vanish.
I think it's great that gay people in the armed forces seem to be standing up for themselves.

Janis .
I think you would find that to be untrue! you cannot use the word "always" in your statement , you can say now or recently but even today though it is suposedly accepted if you do a bit of research you will find cases of homophobia within the forces to the extent that a few have been discharged for there own safety using cover up reasons .
Julia .

If you have a large group of people, say an Army or any branch of the forces, or even the people I was on the train to Edinburgh with on Friday, there is a very high probability that some of them are going to be gay.
There's a very high probability that some of them are going to be left handed, or have red hair, (extremely probable here!).
It's just a fact.
I reiterate that making something "against the law" does not make it magically disappear.
I'm sure there were gay soldiers in the Roman Legions and I'm sure there are gay soldiers serving their countries today.

Hi Janis .
The fact that every where you go "there are" (not a high probability) some people are gay , has nothing to do with the statements your are making , we are in 2010 , you also say making something again,st the law dos,nt make it magically disappear , "its not again,st the law to be gay now" but i was in the past (not long ago) and many of hundreds if not thousands have died because they were gay serving in forces all over the world .When you read a story of a member of the armed forces killed in an accident with a fire arm or even so called friendly fire you don,t get to read about the fact that may have been gay .Soldiers have been killed by other service personel "because they were gay" . Homophobia exists everywhere even on your train and in large groups of one sex working together it comes out .

Please before adding to this do a little bit of research it won,t take long! and please just stop saying "it was not again,st the law" as it was , even though the law has changed life is not easy for any gay person in the forces unless you happen to be an officer .
Julia .

Stevie,
Here in Australia our armed forces let anyone in who will Defend the nation and it works fine.

I was in the army and i told only some people. Others are open about being gay and others are not so.

In jobs like infantry or other arms corps there remains some hotility, but there are those who have over come it. Most people don't give a s**t along as you do your job.

I think your military does your nation a great diservice by continueing to make it a point for discussion. Who cares if who they have sex with if they can defend their society! Remember all parts of a society will want to defend their country, and should be free to do so.

Fiona,
... in the trenches again... fighting for my rights... as a retired SOLDIER!

P.S. retired at 21, i'm only 23 now!

Hi all

Here in Finland it is up to you...you can be released from the military service if you are diagnosted to be a ts. Especially of course, if you are already in transition.
Those who have passed the military service and transition after that can be removed to female corps in reserve. I am an officer in reserve myself and will take the matter with the military when I´m about to change my name and gender status.

hugs

Laura

That sounds logical.

i think that anyone willing to fight for their country ,no matter if they are gay or whatever should b able to enter their armed forces love phylis anne