Hi Alex. Again I agree. I have no problem with Microsoft being so successful and I guess it's just human nature to get wary of any organisation that has so much power, even if they have gained it with our tacit blessing.

Now imagine a scenario where Microsoft not only made the operating system, but almost all of the software applications as well as the hardware .. now that would worry me. And that's what seems to be going on with the whole Mac phenomenon .. and yet the Mac evangelists are the first to scream about monopolies.

Me, I just want everything to work together; so tired of getting discs sent from agencies who are using another (minority) system to find that they can't be opened on my machines .. and somehow they always make out it's my fault!

Most people probably feel the same way which is how we end up with a single system that dominates .. it's just easier. Won't stop me from dabbling with the alternatives though, I guess it's in my nature to want to support the underdog sometimes.

Cerys xx

OK Techie people ..

Have just downloaded the new Netscape 8 browser. And it seems to work perfectly with TW, (so far). I tried to use Firefox but bits of the page would go all over the place. Although Netscape 8 is based on Firefox it gives you the option to "render" the page as if for IE and it works!! A deffo for all those "Gates-ophobics" out there.

.. and it's free.

Cerys xx

It looks ok, but NS8 is also based on MSIE

http://www.techspot.com/s[...]44.html
http://www.latimes.com/bu[...]usiness

Personally, I'd still reccomend firefox itself.

As good as Firefox and Netscape are (and I have used both in the past) you cannot escape the fact that IE works and as it has something like 90% plus of the users online you have to code for it. Firefox does seem to throw a wobbly with page layouts and formats and Netscape had its own set of problems (well it did with me) plus both of them are rarely supported by Internet Banking Services, so I need to keep IE on my machine.

If IE is on the machine the machine is vunerable to IE problems so what is the point of using anything else. As long as your firewall, antivirus, antispyware and Windows are kept up to date you won't have a problem.

What Microsoft really need to do is rewrite IE completely and have it as a stand alone program not part of the Windows package. All the time it is an integral part of the system it will remain vulnerable. And it will stop the Anti Trust actions.

Microsoft - love 'em or hate 'em you have to admit they got it right in the early years.

Alex
xxx

I agree Alex. It's just a shame that Firefox doesn't work better. That said TW is the only site that I have problems on with FF. Most of the time I think IE works just fine, and I'm not a Microsoft basher - unlike some of my Mac fanatic colleagues who seem to have joined some new religion .. I just like trying out new stuff - I have a low boredom threshold. It's just in my nature to try other ways of doing things for the hell of it.

Obviously I must be a "browserf*cker"

Cerys xxx
(sorry Zig)

Cerys,

I've had a fair few sites go screwy with Firefox, which is one of the reasons I ditched it. The only time I use it now is to check my website looks OK in it. Why I don't know as 99.95% of visits to my pages are made using IE!!

As much as I dislike Microsoft products, I have to give them credit for seeing the potential in the first place and took the risk on computers becomming everyday objects. What was it the CEO of IBM said in about 1979?? "I see no reason why anyone would need a computer in their home, the world market for PC's is less than a handful." Bill saw the gap and exploited it. The only problem was no one else saw it and gave Microsoft any competition early on so they built up an industry base and it has gone from there.

It does seem like we are knocking Microsoft for being succesful and for not having any competition for years. Maybe we should start ranting against the others for being so blooming slow on the uptake.

Alex
xxx

Actually, with websites going screwy in FF, it's not the fault of FF. It's the fault of the coder getting it wrong.

Firefox is far more standard compliant than Internet Explorer - which is a good thing.

The result is that as a web designer, on the basis of two browsers (though there are obviously more), you should always design a site to work with Firefox, and it will then work with IE with no problems. It really is acctually IE that's sloppy.

Also, there is no way to remove IE completely from a system (unless it's a mac ), as it forms an integral part of windows. It's true that there are flaws in IE that are exploitable even if you don't use it, but these don't account for them all. Most flaws in Internet Explorer tend only to be exploited when you use it. It's for this reason that most people would recommend that IE is only used either when absolutely nessecary, or only for those sites that you know you can trust.

In support of Firefox, more and more peple are using it for these very reasons. It may be inconvenient sometimes, but it has other features which make up for it to some degree, and is a better browser overall.

It's just a case of knowing where the blame for dodgy webpages lies. It's not with the tools used to view them, it's with the people who made them.

Incidentally, Bill Gates' big break wasn't microsoft as we know it. It was the BASIC programming language. But then, he stole that too! There were many others that were getting it right at the time, including Amstrad, Atari, and believe it or not, even IBM!!!

Yes, the reason computers are compatible with each other and are able to all use windows is because IBM played the leading and biggest role in the standardisation of computer hardware, starting with the IBM XT (8086 processor), followed by the IBM AT (which is where they dropped the 80 and went 286, 386, 486, and 586). This paved the way for Intel pentiums and the ATX form factor, which to this day are still based on an x86 architecture.

IBM are acctually responsible fr a lot more than people give them credit for. They are even responsible for DOS! This was written in co-operation I believe with the fledgeling Microsoft Corporation. The reason that Microsoft became so successful and able to create somethinglike windows in the first place is because at that early stage, Bill Gates somehow managed to rip off IBM and steal DOS in its entirety for himself, sometime around DOS version 3 or 4. Incidentally, not a single version of windows since then has EVER been as powerful as DOS - it just gets a little quicker and more user friendly.

OK - now I've really shown what a geek I can be! <shakes head in shame>. I know far more than I want to about this!

Oops! Looks like I put my foot in it! lmao.

I'm soo sorry katie. I didn't mean it as that. I was just stating the facts as known.

You are right though, I have a feeling even the original Mozzila browser was in it's infancy when you put this place together!

I have to say though, even if Firefox was around at the time, it still wouldn't have all been your fault. (bearing in mind I wasn't talking about tweb in the first place. Just a general observation! lol)

Standards for web coding have been around for a long time, and to get a web page to appear the same in any browser doesn't always need strict compliance (though it's always nice to be able to add that W3C logo to your work )

The thing is, Microsoft seemed to decide that IE didn't have to give complete compliance. The result was that in order fr pages to work cross platform, the coder had to give compliance instead, or suffer an eroor compounded with an error, which is how we get MSIE designed pages that screw up in browsers that do what they are supposed to do.

Personally though, asides from anything else, Tweb is a truly massive entity, and I think that all things considered, you've done a truly fab job of it. If you had an entire legion of people coding for you, then I might think that it might have been better to keep it all neat, tidy, and 'standardised', but unfortunately you haven't got that, and after regular updates, modifications and improvements, code does get a little messed up.

I have to say, I probably wouldn't have done half as well as you have, and so you have a definite fan of your work in this corner! lol

I need some help fixing Firefox. My problem is I have never had any problems on TW with it. Something must be wrong with it, right? I prefer to use it on TW. Can someone tell me how to repair it so that it doesn't work with TW?

What I don't use it for is online email providers as I get formatting issues. I am going to resolve that by going to Thunderbird and dropping Hotmail. I also don't use it on M$ sites because....well, we know M$ intentionally sabotages other applications like the Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox series and Wordperfect as a form of business infighting.

My *only* serious criticism of TW functioning is that I cannot make the forum-search work, ever, not once in a year has it found results for a single search....with either browser. Now, it is possible that the functioning problem is with Wendy, not TW. I am open on this concept.

Wendy

If it ain't broke don't fix it ...

Attached pic is a grab to show what Firefox does to TW on my comp, main problem is that the header part of the page goes a bit wonky ..

.. useable, but not pretty (a bit like me then!!)

KATIE! Stop blaming yourself for everything pet, you're a total star. Remember the start of this thread; TW now works with Netscape8, that is a leap forward.

Cerys xx
(Glass half full girl)

No. I definately can't say that I've seen that happen before!

As it happens, I've never seen a firefox issue here either. I just assumed there was on by the fact that others said ther was. I figured that other people may have been looking at things/pages that I haven't been.