September 5, 2009 7:27 PM BST
Another emotive issue. Whilst, agreeng, that TG/TS basic rights should be upheld, ongoing treatment etc continuing in prison, as in the case of a cancer patient etc. But I don't think SRS should be expidited, thats just que jumping, As for the transfer to a womans prison, the person in question perhaps will live to regret being incarcerated with a load of women and SRS might not
be an issue if the woman get their hands on her, Anyway does anyone know if they have actually officially changed gender, ie birth certificate etc, otherwise technically I would assume, they would have been detained in a men only institution.
Could be frying pan and fire scenario, get sent to a mens prison get raped on a regular basis or in a womans prison and get castrated.
Wonder how the law is going to rule on future cases, not just rape, What If's again, A pre-op TS with a GRC is sent to prison, will that be a female or male establishment? How far down the line does one have to be officially to be assigned to a womans detention centre. Can one be transfered half way through a sentance as they complete their RLE and subsequently get their GRC. Would the prison authorities accept a prisoner into a male prison, in a dress and what would the requirements be for the prison staff to issue female prison uniform etc.????
OMG are we now going to get a never ending what if's.
Any Tranny lawyers members? perhaps, they could add somthing.
Adendum. I have just been informed that if one does have a criminal record in the UK if your previous name Was Jimmy Bloggs and you change your name to Jenny Bloggs and even if you change your gender the records wil always show Current name Jenny Bloggs,. also known as Jimmy Bloggs and details of your registered change of gender.
xxXCristineXxxx
September 6, 2009 1:34 AM BST
Just a thought on this. I think the rapist in question has had a Gender Recognition Certificate and a new birth certificate. In the eyes of the law that makes her female so it could be argued that to deny her a place in a female prison could damage the legal status of all Gender Recognition Certificates.
September 6, 2009 12:14 PM BST
I do not see how anyone can successfully complete the RLE in prison. It just isn’t feasible but I may be wrong. My knowledge of prisons is limited so they may be able to get a job or work voluntarily for a charity or something. Without a successful RLE meeting the requirements should inhibit any progress towards SRS because otherwise it would make a sham of the whole process that free citizens are required to complete and the rules should be the same for everyone. If I read correctly and it appears that criminals in prison are able to bypass particular requirements or they are rendered inept then you might find that some desperate transgendered individuals with limited options might commit a crime just to get access to the prison fast-track mechanism that appears to be in operation.
I'm not saying criminals in prison should be prevented from transitioning but I am saying the same rules should apply to everyone equally which in turn would mean their progress towards SRS would be unsuccessful by default. To be any different would make a complete sham of everything else.
I think I will spend more time thinking about this as I would hate to be someone in prison who is addressing gender dayphoria. It must be a very difficult situation to deal with. Nobody can help when they accept and address their transgenderism and I believe that everyone’s civil rights should always be upheld. However, criminals in prison have forfeit their freedom by committing crimes and that should not be forgotten.
September 6, 2009 1:41 PM BST
Are we not forgeting the victim here, their human rights? Every time I hear the news, some bloody murderer, rapist mugger has bee released early under the human rights act, not enought flat screens to go around in prison? unable to acess porn, oooooo better let the buggers out. Because the goverment is unable to fullfill the conditions of locking them up under the stupid directives of some jobs worth in Europe. Lock them up give them sod all. Treat like them the scum they are. If you break the rules do not expect preferential treatment or an easy life.
CSWx
September 7, 2009 12:45 AM BST
Few things: GRC is granted after signing a Statutory Declaration thay the person wants to live rest of life as a woman...Stat Dec are legally binding for most other legal things but not it seems for sex changers? So of course we have to ask why do we have to jump through the hoops to get one if we can just ignore them? Gov't should tell teh reversers you signed the Stat Dec and it stands. So go away and enjoy your vagina' . If they then claim Human Rights to change mind it make a nonsense of whole process and will inevitably give fuel to the 'sex change is waste of money' gang.
Secondly the basic idea of sex change is that it is the solution to the overwhelming feeling of being trapped in wrong body, feeling birth body/genitals are wrong...so how come the law and any transsexual would even consider a reversal? OK the argument is that peopel can make a mistake? But that is what assessments and 2 years RLE is for.
Thirdly I really do feel that the jail situation is really weird and has various, psychological physiology things related to lack of hetero sex, excess of homosex, excess of porn, excess time when sex talk/fantasizing/smell of sex in the air is unavoidable that will delude a person into thinking they are transexual when in fact they are somewhere else on the gender spectrum...but no-one can do a proper RLE in jail anyway...so prisoner should just be held at crossdresser stage until they get out and can try RLE for themselves.
Fourthly ..its generally accepted that given choice of sex change and live female and no sex or no sex change but plenty sex and a social life and many TS will choose the sex change just to get rid of the maleness and live female. Any person claiming to be transexual but wanting to live male is not transexual by definition.
September 7, 2009 11:32 AM BST
Cass xxxXXxx
Yes we must not forget the victim of any crime. But whilst not agreeing with all the Human rights directives, ie. the maximum pre-determined life sentences, where life should literally mean life. We don't want to revert back to barbaric inhuman conditions that some third world countries employ for what is deemed punishment. Of course prisoners should not have all the privedges of the free and innocent, If somone has a GRC prior to being locked up, they should be entitled to carry on in their OFFICIALLY recognised gender and sent to a womans prison. Obviously not somone that decides to advance their cause by suddenly insisting they are a woman a few days after being arrested.
To Rose, if you have a GRC, then you are officially recognised as living as a woman, or it should, As long as you don't go back to growing a beard, swilling pints of lager and wearing mens attire. Having a willy does not necessarily make you a man as any pre-op will tell you, the fact one lives the life should entitle them to be recognised as a woman, not everyone wants SRS today or even tomorow, but continue to live their lives in the role they have adapted to, until they are rerady for lets face it, is one of the most important decision anyone could ever have to make. I take it by living as a male, you basically mean keeping ones male genitalia? so if you somone has a health problem that excludes them from surgery they in your eyes are not a woman, somone who lives the life of a woman but can't face up to the traumas of surgery is not a woman. Those that are in no rush, taking their time until they feel within themselves the times is right are not realy a woman. GID has nothing to do with the aesthetic appearance of the body.
I have been hunting the net, to see if I could find any precedents for sentencing or guidlines in determining womans or mens prisons in these cases, can't find anything
xxXCristinexxx
