I don't know if Pueraria Mirifica is harmless and useless or effective and maybe a little toxic.
I wanted to apply some, as a spray, only to my penis for some reduction in size.
May that work?
As much use as a chocolate tea pot, I don't want to sound derisive, but, are you intending to change your gender, permantly. Otherwise why would anyone want to reduce the size of their willy, if your just an occasional cross dresser try a cache sex. or as they are more commonly known as a gaff, Admirers are normally thought of as men who have a liking for transexuals. Unless your appendage is of humungus proportions most girls would be happy being on the recieving end of a decent sized willy, not some shriveled up little worm
LOL Cass - that is so true
These were my first posts here, and I felt that I was respetful of your community. I receive one reply making what is almost a joke, and another reply, speaking to that comment for two useless replies. Really.
Maybe I am in a realtionship with someone who wants me to be a little smaller, or not. I did a search, and while there are plenty of products to make a penis bigger which do not work, hormones do work for making a penis smaller, yet they also feminize and produce a female's butt and breasts. There are along with the pills, topical creams and sprays which can be applied directly to your breasts, butt and penis as you go for another gender, and one of those products is a Pueraria Mirifica spray. The pills they make are for breast enlargement and also for TG people for transformation, the cream they make is meant for healing strectch marks and breast development and a person who works for them informally who trolls other webistes told me the spray used alone would shrink my penis, yet how can I believe somebody shilling for the product? And, is it toxic or would it be, for the somewhat lesser amount I wanted to use it for?
Some say it is harmless, and does not work, some say it is toxic and may work. I don't know who to believe and I said I don't care who sells it, and I am not spamming for anybody, and I asked nicely if anybody knows and somebody makes almost a joke and somebody else comments on the joke.
I don't want to fight with anybody Is there anyone here who has some answers to my post? Please and thanks
EDIT: Fixed the paragraph breaks
I don't think Cassandra was making fun of you or being disrespectful, she was just trying to point out that there is a lot of controvesy ove claims fer herbal remedies. perhpas not very well put, The particular herb you mentioned, there are basically two types, the potions, lotions, whatever are extracts from the roots, The red root, is renowned in Thailand for enhancing male ardour and increasing penile size. The extracts from the white root contain mock eostrogens, and claims for their use in aiding male to female transition are highly exagerated. It is also a fact that there are no substantiated reports for the effectiveness of this particular herb, made by any recognised authority, in fact Wikipedia, addage is well if you believe in ghosts. Personally my opinion is a waste of money and ''as much use as a chocolate tea pot''. You did'nt make youself very clear in your original post about why you needed to reduce your size. I think if you are worried about a partner if your gentle and patient , you will both enjoy.
I didn't mean to be mean to Cassandra and Carol, either. I felt is was a bad start to the thread, and maybe nobody else would reply to it.
I did read a lot about the herb having some power with breast development and didn't find a lot of websites saying that the herb was a total ripoff either so maybe somebody here may have some experience with it. An herbal mock hormone applied only to the penis may work some so I will wait for any other replies and thanks for the reply and thanks also to Cassandra and Carol for posting as they did get get the reply counter going, too
Jim, a lot of these so called herbal remedies are just pure money making machines for people (look at acai berries as an aid to weight reduction). All it needs are a few people to conspire together through various internet postings and the development of 5 or 6 web sites and for an outlay of very little can develop an intenational business virtually overnight. Hence Cass's remark about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
For all of these things which have not been properly scientifically evaluated, I think your rationale should be 'Caveat emptor'.
I know. That's why I was asking here
I don't want to waste $70.00 on the spray yet there is not a lot of website posting saying that the spray is a waste, so maybe it works. That spray is offered only for application to the breasts for enlargement and also written of as a way to shrink a penis, so as it is an herb and can't be patented maybe somebody here already tried it and it worked a little or a lot.
Anybody?
If it really worked, I think pharmaceutical companies would have jumped on it by now, isolated the active ingredients and synthesised them in a lab - breast enlargement is a very lucrative business and if anything like that really worked you can bet your last dollar that it would have been thoroughly investigated by the top pharmaceutical reseearch labs.
Jim...the sprays are a waste...the root itself and especially the extract does have some merit...email me and I will fill you in as I do not wish to open a can of worms in here regarding merits of any herbals vs. prescribed...but I do have experience in it and can shed some light on the topic.
After giving this some further thought, is there really anyway to actually physically shrink a penis??? The only conclusion I can think of, creams, sprays whatever are only going to prevent a full erection, which in itself are going to cause further problems.
Only way to shrink the penis that I am aware of is of course regular doses of hormones and anti-androgens...you first turn impotent, then you watch your willy wither! (smile) That's how it worked for me....maybe an "orchi" could expedite things, maybe? LOL
But Jim wants to keep his virility up while shrinking it down....tall task and still not sure I understand why. It wil come at a price as in weak if any orgasms and such...
Traci to be honest I'm intrigued. as to its actual size. If he is gentle and patient, whichever way he goes, its possible to adapt to the size and have a really satisfy ing sex life.
Mine just "gave up" after a 2 year "struggle" to hang on! (smile)
I have no experience of the spray. In my opinion it is expensive for what it is. For it to work, and I do assume that it does! it will have to have transdermal action and thus affect you systemically not just in the local topical area. Thus you might as well buy the powder.
I have been taking PM R1 powder from ainterol for 5 months with Saw palmetto. I did not expect much in the way of results but I have got results. I now have breasts, small but noticeable under clothes, fat redistribution, generally i have put on 5kg, my face has changed shape, Fat to hips etc... I think my shoulders are actually dropping too... I am taking more than is recommended by ainterol and I am concerned about the long term effects. Who knows what they are... I am probably not far off permanent chemical castration. My testes have shrunk considerably, my penis is no smaller when errect however. My sex drive has decreased massively. I find myself feeling a bit more tired also. Presumably reduced testosterone. I am very happy with the results so far. When I started it was really just out of desperation whilst waiting on the GIC waiting list. I have a friend who started real hormones at about the same time as myself. Much to my amazement our progress is comparable.
So yes PM does work. It is a very powerful phytoeostrogen - but its not going to be selective for your penis.
Julia Ford said:
This thread is so funny it could be made into a Comedy sketch! I just nearly pissed knickers reading the replies . There is one way to do it. SIT IN A BATH OF ICE COLD WATER FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS. Anyway you lot have fun I wish I could stay but my time is up soon here. Bye all and not forgetting my good friend "Little Willy". Former member xxx
Hmm. Not the most helpful reply. Aren't women supposed to have more empathy than men?
Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said: Crstine bites her tongue, but posts this little piece and the link. HERBAL HORMONES Many plants contain compounds that directly or indirectly affect hormones or hormone activity in the body. Since phytoestrogens (i.e., "Plant Estrogens") are far weaker than their animal counterparts, they can be used effectively to manage overabundant or deficient amounts of estrogen. The molecular structure of phytoestrogens is so similar to those in animals that they readily bind with estrogen receptors, in some cases even more readily than the actual animal steroids. Becase the plant steroids are so much less "reactive," though, they occupy the receptor while only performing some (or none) of the job. The animal estrogen is swept on in the bloodstream to either bind with some other receptor, a blood protein, or ultimately to be destroyed in the liver or excreted from the body altogehter. In this way, plant hormones can be used to "block" the direct activity of free, unbound estrogen in the body. If there is a deficiency the small amount of stimulation from the plant hormones can cause a mild estrogenic effect and in this way act as an estrogen supplement. USE IN TRANSGENDER FEMINZATION If you are a Male-to-Female transgendered person who have come to this page in search of information on over-the-counter natural/herbal hormones for the purpose of feminizing your body, you need to be aware that the effectiveness of the few herbals the DO exert estrogenic actions is extremely minimal because phytoestrogens tend to be only about 1/1000th as strong as animal estrogens. These herbal drugs may work well to help balance a biological females peri-menopausal or post-menopausal endocrine system, but they are wholly insufficient for over-riding a biological male's testosterone dominance. The amounts of herb that would have to be consumed would be dangerous if not outright toxic. While some people do report some minor effect from certain herbal formulations (such as gynecomastia or a small amount of fat redistribution) the majority of transgender people who've tried them will tell you that herbals are ineffective and a waste of money if your goal is to fully feminize your body. Only prescription-grade hormones will provide adequate feminization results (some of which are bio-identical to what your body produces - i.e., "natural") . http://gendersociety.com/[...]101620& http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/4454/herbal/view/page/1
Some excellent and informative comments from Lucy diamond, and rather a frightening opening post http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/1261/warning-dangers-of-self-medicati
As i have said before i believe herbs can work as well as drugs in certain conditions. But just because its a herb it does not mean its safe Liquorice is a herb and is used for a whole host of things not least as a sweet but it also is toxic and can cause liver failure in high doses (not as high as people would think). From the 2 posters above who have commented that herbs have done this and that and they feel calmer this seems like a placebo effect when i was taking herbal estrogen's i too felt that only once i started taking convectional drugs i realized all i was experiencing a placebo and MINIMAL feminization (i was going out more and drinking more booze so that could be why) i wonder what your blood work would come back showing? i still use herbs i drink herbal teas esp mint teas (as they may be a weak anti androgen and taste great) i swear by white and nettle tea for antioxidants. Also you both seem to be buying pre made concoctions at god knows how much if you really think they work why not just buy the active ingredient herbs and take those it should display the herbs and strengths. My prescription hormones which work (and my bloods are monitored) on a private script from my dr cost less incl consultation costs less than herbs do. Also sorry i agree with carol broyony your prof and posts dont add up all you state is the chest size has grown thats completely different from cup and breast size i used to have a 44inch chest now i have a 32 and now a b cup my 44inch chest was bigger but had no cup. Also if the herb is working so well has your wife or workmates noticed? if my hb suddenly grew hips and breasts id be worried? herbs are great but dont mess with your helth just see a dr and save a fortune on internet and the net is awash with "drs and counsellers" whom are as much a d.r as i am a ordained minister (and i am i brought it off the internet for a laugh).x
Hi Tracy and Others
Open minded is just where I like to sit.
The jury is certainly in on pharmaceuticals, so much so that different medications are regularly added and withdrawn from professional recommendations. As far as the results of feminisation go we have to be fair and say that the studies are ongoing and while they are encouraging there is no one guaranteed prescription or drug regimen. Even my endocrinologist was recommending medications based on a consensus from his collegues.
So what about alternative medicines or the so called herbals? This industry has massive a turnover. They could easily afford the R & D that pharmaceutical companies invest in. It is only a matter of one company extracting an active compound, developing ways of amplifying its effects, completing clinical trials and marketing it. Once the huge profits start coming in, other companies will follow suite. It is just a matter of time I would have thought.
In terms of the consumer, isn't it a question of faith. We know a diet high in phytoestrogens, such as some Asain diets, have a feminising effect. If the consumer believes their medications are the best then who has the right to deny them that privelege?
To me, the cost differential is paramount, not only are prescription medications more economical, but there is a further cost saving in DIY.
NB: I do have medical training and I am also under the medical supervision of an endocrinologist.
Regards
CB
Bryony Willis said:
Regarding safety, if you use Google Scholar you will find many papers confirming the efficacy and safety of PM, not least that it even appears to protect against breast cancer.
Google Scholar! Why have I not heard of this before?
If you want a real herbal that will knock your socks off, then get yourself down to the local herbalists and buy some Wild Yam Extract.
Regards
CB
Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Bryony, Your praise of PM comes after immediately after you joined this site. In your message above here you claim that you went from a 35" band width to a 36" band width with a 40" measurement over your 'boobs'. As everybody here knows, a 4" difference would equate to an impressive D cup. However, in your profile you state that you are an A cup. Can you now see why people are questioning your motives behind your post.
Hello Carol,
the timing is simple: I came across this subject on this board, and wanted to contribute for which I had to join! I think there is some measurement confusion here.... my understanding is that if you add 4" / 5" to the underbust (5 if it is odd) then my 35" +5 gives a bra size of 40". My measurements around my nipples are 39.5 - 40" depending on when I measure them, and that is the same as the bra size, hence an A cup.
I can't see what motives I would have not to tell the truth. If you join the Breast Nexus forum and look at member Bryony, you will see that I have been contributing about a year and a half. The forum called Breast Growth for Biological Males has a members' photos sub forum and you can see for yourself that I am not alone in using PM to achieve substantial growth (there are pictures of my development there too).
If you Google for 'mirifica FDA' then on the fda.gov website you will find a document called "Description-of-Pueraria-Mirifica - Food and Drug Administration" which contains a lot of safety information and a passage containing "VI. Estrogenic and Estrogen Antagonistic Phytoestrogen Isoflavones of P. mirifica Root Extract " which contains details or the estrogenic properties.
Can I also urge you to use Google Scholar to search for terms including 'mirifica' and 'hrt'?
In particular the result "Down regulation of gene related sex hormone synthesis pathway in mouse testes by miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol"
The abstact concludes with " These observations supported that miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol could exhibit the same effect as estradiol regarding regulation of testicular gene related sex hormone synthesis pathway."
There are many more confirming the efficacy of PM as an herbal HRT.
These are peer-reivewed scientific papers, so if you are suspicious of me, and you are entitled to be, why not peruse them?
Best regards,
Bryony
Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Band size is measurement just under the bust, cup size is (measurement over the bust less band size) - you stated in your profile that you are an A cup not a D cup, that is what piqued my suspicion.
Hi Carol,
well, I'm confused. As I don't actually wear a bra, I went to a web page to find out how to give my size.
If you look here: http://brastraps.com/brafit.htm , the instructions indicate that I am an A cup.
i.e., band size = 35+5 = 40
Bra size = measurement around bust = 40
Cup size = A if bra size - band size = 1 or less. What method do you use to get a D cup then?
Has the idea of adding 4 or 5 to the underbust measurement gone away with some manufacturers? Only I've found the method I used on several pages.
Best regards,
Bryony
Chalice Brendale said:
Hi Tracy and Others
Open minded is just where I like to sit.
The jury is certainly in on pharmaceuticals, so much so that different medications are regularly added and withdrawn from professional recommendations. As far as the results of feminisation go we have to be fair and say that the studies are ongoing and while they are encouraging there is no one guaranteed prescription or drug regimen. Even my endocrinologist was recommending medications based on a consensus from his collegues.
So what about alternative medicines or the so called herbals? This industry has massive a turnover. They could easily afford the R & D that pharmaceutical companies invest in. It is only a matter of one company extracting an active compound, developing ways of amplifying its effects, completing clinical trials and marketing it. Once the huge profits start coming in, other companies will follow suite. It is just a matter of time I would have thought.
In terms of the consumer, isn't it a question of faith. We know a diet high in phytoestrogens, such as some Asain diets, have a feminising effect. If the consumer believes their medications are the best then who has the right to deny them that privelege?
To me, the cost differential is paramount, not only are prescription medications more economical, but there is a further cost saving in DIY.
NB: I do have medical training and I am also under the medical supervision of an endocrinologist.
Regards
CB
Hi,
I hope by now some of you have had a chance to look at the clinical paper references I put up. The big difference with herbal over pharm is that (a) food supplements are relatively safe enough to use without medical help. (b) to get pharm hormones, I would have to go the full gender counselling route, and possibly be put on a path to transition (c) some people in my circumstances (including me) do not feel able to go that route; we've got to late middle age with a wife and grown up kids; apart from taking their husband/father away, there aren't enough years left to develop the unconscious mannerisms to appear other than an aging man trying and failing to present as a woman.
The thing is, I've got this far before the GID got too much for me; I have no idea how few years I have left (I'm now 60). if I'd understood sooner what my situation was, I would maybe have made different life choices, but I have too much investment in loved ones now. I'd rather spend my remaining years dealing with my situation and get involved in other activities.
What I needed, and found, was something that would relieve the very real mental anguish of GID.
I still have the intense, poignant yearning that I always do when I see someone who I would particularly like to be, but it's more like a headache, or toothache that you have treated with a painkiller like Tylenol.... you know it is there, but you can deal with it. Most importantly, I have lost the depression and anxiety that were becoming too much to deal with.
I know that this might sound too good to be true, but check out this clinical paper:
"Efficacy comparison of Pueraria mirifica (PM) against conjugated equine estrogen (CEE) with/without medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) in the treatment of climacteric symptoms in perimenopausal women: phase III study." at http://imsear.hellis.org/handle/123456789/41330
"CONCLUSION: PM, containing phytoestrogens, has estrogenic effect as similar as CEE, and can alleviate the climacteric symptoms in perimenopausal women"
And there are many other such papers that can be found through Google Scholar.
Bryony
Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
http://www.herroom.com/bra-fitting-advice,901,30.html If you are a D or a DD cup as your measurements would suggest, then you really do need to be wearing a bra.
Ah, as I thought, it looks like there are two systems, one adding 4/5" and the other not.
Hmm. They don't feel like Ds. I'm guessing that because bras are intended for the very different dimensions of the female rib cage and musculature, the cup size system doesn't really work. Despite the measurements I told you being accurate, they almost fit in my cupped hands. Trouble is, a bra would be a bit obvious with family,friends, work. I tend to wear a tight undershirt most of the time.
B.
Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Bryony, Your praise of PM comes after immediately after you joined this site. In your message above here you claim that you went from a 35" band width to a 36" band width with a 40" measurement over your 'boobs'. As everybody here knows, a 4" difference would equate to an impressive D cup. However, in your profile you state that you are an A cup. Can you now see why people are questioning your motives behind your post.
Carol,
just to let you know, I have edited my profile to state measurements instead of cup size, due to the confusion caused by the two methods in general use.
B.
Hmmm... I didnt really want to bump into someoen elses argument but the title of the OP brought me here. And I would like to hear some advice; As I am experiencing breast growth and penile shrinkage. Friends have commented on the former, due to the fact I cant hide them (wont fit in a C anymore, not quite fill a D). The latter is a little more personal... but yeah its shrinking significantly when flacid, but erect it has only lost maybe an inch (2cm).
I was wondering how long after being on hormeones, going by the experience of the other members, I should be expecting this growth/reduction?
Portia, hiya, depends on the hormone regime your on, I doubt the physical size when erect will shrink that much, as you progress, it will be harder to obtain a full erection. size will probably not be affected in the early stages, it will just be large and limp. also depends on your own physical circumstances/make up. everyone is different. But i hope your on a regulated and monitored regime for safety reasons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueraria_mirifica
Some cosmetic products and herbal supplements claim various health benefits of the extracts of Pueraria mirifica including increasing appetite, enlarging breasts,[3] improving hair growth, and other rejuvenating effects; however, there is no scientific evidence to support any these claims.[4] The U.S. Federal Trade Commission has taken action against manufacturers who make such fraudulent claims.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/2002/12/vdicmp.pdf
No supper tonight then?