. i was wondering today, the % of us who don`t tell our wives or partners, about our feminie desires. Untill after we either marry them or live with them for some time. Then that got me to wondering why we should be pissed if they are 1, upset we were not exactly honest, & 2, that they dont want a piece of it! This is a mans trait, to place the problem with them. maybe we should`ve been honest from the start! just a thought! 

This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at February 14, 2013 6:28 PM GMT

True Desi, women marry ''MEN'', Lots of reasons, I should imagine a lot of trans people think getting married, will ''cure'' them, wonder how many purge before they get married, In most cases I should imagine, they have no conception of the effects or problems this will create. Women seek someone who is not only protective but they want a ''standard male role model. Not someone that#s gonna borrow their undies etc. Most don't understand or even want to understand, they feel betrayed. think it a perversion, a fetish or think there man is a closet gay. I honestly think that the genuine trans is deluded and think they can give up their desires for the love and normality of a family life. in a lot of cases all it causes is resentment and bitterness.   But in the main I think with most to class oneself as dishonest is oversimplyfying things.

 

Some do mange to save relationships,    Love conquers all,  but you are right, it must be a shock and upsetting for family.

The first pivotal question is how well does the person know herself/himself? Where one is at in this question will set the stage in the relationship and what can follow. Once a person sees her true self, then that should help to answer questions, though the answers can be hard. In a relationship the interests of both need to be considered and clearly one seeing a new course for herself ( the trans ) will alter the original direction of things considerably. At the heart of it all needs to be communication - which is not just what one says, but what one hears and seeks to understand. Many of these points are addressed by Cristine more directly as to expectations and the like. There is certainly no one final answer on this one. However it works out in a given situation - the best is really that all see each other as they wish to be seen and thought of and treated as, loved and respected.

I didn`t tell my wife untill two & half years into our relationship. I think she was relived as when we met I had plucked eyebrows, no body hair apart from my never regions, & that isn`much to speak of. pierced ears & a love of shopping. She was concerned i may be bi sexual, & although she has no interest in the transvestite side of me. She was pretty happy that i happen to be a straight boy who likes to wear a dress now & then

Comment deleted by myself.

This post was edited by Former Member at February 21, 2013 2:24 PM GMT

Yes Desi, that seems to be the way things progress.

 

I have never been married and broke off an engangement partly for these reasons.

However, I think society is getting better at early diagnosis, prognosis and intervention.

 

There will be many varieties of transsexual lifestyle, but I agree, people need to be much more open and honest.  No-one lives on an island and the good of the community needs to be put ahead of our own self interest.

 

Chalice. *^_^*   

This post was edited by Former Member at February 14, 2013 8:19 PM GMT

I reiterate I don't think people generally set out to deliberately be obtuse, or intend to be deceitful. And I don't think self interest comes into it. Most people who married under these circumstances, did not know, what they were, wanted to be, don't spend the rest of your life beating yourself up. If you liked dressing up and screwing men, before you got married and knew you were going to carry on doing that after getting married yes then shame on you for getting married. but with the amount of information out now, people are tending to question themselves more and get help before undertaking such a drastic ommitment

Feminine feelings do not always come in childhood. Some are delayed or even suppressed until adulthood. Then a choice has to be made - family or transition. Personally I choose family which I found to be difficult and became a workaholic.

Phew, big question...! As an SO who has recently had to come to terms with a slightly different perspective on my relationship... Would I have wanted to know earlier?... I have asked myself this question over and over... Still don't really know the answer and of course, everyone is different. I think if it were early days, I may have run to the hills. But, you know, you get to know someone and everything changes, for sure. I think I could have coped with knowing before but still don't know how much before.. It is such a difficult issue to deal with.
I hope that I am an open and honest person, can see everyone's point of view.. etc. But I can well understand if someone can't cope with finding out their partner is tv, tg, ts... I happen to think, in my case, that my knowledge of my husband and our relationship means that I will support him.
OK, I didn't sign up for this, and it is a struggle to understand at times, but I love him and that's that basically.
But this is a very interesting thread of thought and one I think we can ALL benefit from.
I am still dealing with it, and I value your thoughts, and my husband's feelings... (Sorry can't quite get my head around seeing him as her but as I said a while back, I am getting there).
Good thread ladies....

Elle.
You are what is commonly known as a Gem! A diamond as in rare and precious.

Unfortunatly for most SO,s they can't or don't want to try to understand.

I still stick by what I posted above though but adding no-one can see into the future but they should have a fairly good idea how strong that feminine feeling is inside of them.

I am going to wish you all the best again to both of you....

I always seem to think of things a little different.  I am transsexual and living full time.  My interest is in men, definitely.  And I do believe in upfront honesty, so I would present my history (I call it my boat anchor).  So my question is how would I react if I met a guy and I was honest with him about myself, and then he told me he was transgendered. Yes, there is that sense of betrayal if we were together for a while when he told me.  But what if we just met and he was being honest with me as I with him.  Would I insist on being the only woman in the relationship?  I cannot answer that question at this time, and I pray I never have to.

My question at the start of this thread was i wonder at the % of us who didn`t tell our SOs the truth about our feminine side. I was wondering about this as I`ve spoken with enough other girls here, to have picked up on, the resentment towards their SOs becouse they didn`t get the response they wanted! I was lucky, but it wasn`t really honest of me. To have kept the secret so long into our relationship. I wasn`t asking about being true to yourself, or knowing when you were aware you were a trans girl (to generalize) I was just curious, how many were not honest to their partners, & why they should be resentful towards them, if they cut up rough about it. as basicly, myself included here. we sold them a lie

Wow this is a very gripping but so very complex. The stage (age) of life  has a very significant influence on this decision to tell, at least I think for my age group in that time period.

 

To answer the % question, I know very few girls that have told there S.O. before things heat up.

 

 My first wife was not told, we got married very young (19 ) because of the war that started, I was drafted and married 1965.

Now after 20yrs of marriage, three kids, it ended in divorce. I did tell her but it was after she told me she was a closeted lesbian, go figure on this one. well we had a peaceful ending.

  I knew there were trans feelings at a very early age, so this was a chance to sort this out. Then I met my wife, we dated for 12 yrs. But I told her soon after dating. She could of bailed out at anytime. Like already stated, she would of felt so betrayed if not told, and SHE could make the choice.  Other wise, could she really believe me about issues after being dishonest. 

 One of her problems was getting through the fact that areas that were exclusively hers, were ours. She went to therapy also, so it was a balanced way to go.

 One thing she really enjoys is the fact that I am neat, and show feelings and she has a shopping friend to give opinions.

 

Huggs...Tammy

This post was edited by Tammy Brianne at February 15, 2013 4:17 AM GMT

Perhaps I should have stayed out of this one, not having any personal experience of marriage.

or having been in this particular position. unfortunateky.

I`ve never had children, but i still have an opinion on them! Sometimes an outside view helps those closer to the situation.

I have witnessed the pain this topic causes at meetings I have been invited to.
The last one was a male his wife and 19 year old daughter .
His way of telling them was getting dressed up and waiting for them to come home from a hospital visit to a dieing relative . They came home and he said "Suprise" They thought it was a joke untill he told them this is who he was going to be.
That evening at the meeting he made his wife and daughter look the lowest of low for not understanding and done it in front of about 20 other people . I spent the rest of that evening comforting his wife and daughter.
He said in front of all those people to his wife and daughter if you don't like it then move out laughing whilst saying it.

I did put him in his place after he tried to talk to me and also told him to let his wife and daughter take the car home and you walk out of here looking like that and see how far you get. Close to 60 years old wearing a yellow mini skirt black stockings and white shoes looking like a liquorice allsort with stubble.

Thats the kind of thing I meant about f#cking up others lives and deception and lies because he knew what he was doing and was only concerned about himself. Not once did he come to check on his wife and daughter who walked out in tears niether did anyone else there just me. I just hope if I had not been there someone would have checked on them and showed some compassion to the ones he hurt.

Cristine I can't see why you say you should have stayed out of this! You look at things from different sides and your points are valid unlike 10 posts above this one.

How that person can hide away and then dare to use the words openess and honesty beats me. Claiming to be a male to female transexual living life as a male and thinking others saying "Hey Mister" is a compliment. Maybe they should look up openess and honesty in a dictionary and compare them to hiding and lies.

I still live in hope that the younger generation have learned by others mistakes and that includes my own. Yes I make mistakes too just like any other human being, as I told someone on the home page last night its what humans do best.

The trouble is we are in a generation of learning and I still say we are the slowest evolving species on this planet. If the next generation do not learn from mistakes this one has made then being transgendered will still be stuck in a time warp when we are all gone.

This thread has been a real microcosm of the world we inhabit. The comments have their own validity because they apply to each Individual. For me, I cannot agree with the basic tenet that I somehow "lied" to Elle. The conversation (when? First or second date? ) might have been " you know, I used to be a TV, almost started to transition-but don't worry, I'm over it now". Then count to 3 before she left. The fact was, I truly thought I was "over it". I wanted to be, desperately. So, while it might have made me a little deluded, I don't think it makes me a liar.

As Elle herself said, she would most probably have been out of that door. Thank goodness she has been able to see enough in our relationship to want to continue. I will be eternally in her debt for that.

I do, however, completely agree with the point that we have no right to expect our SO to react favourably when we tell them. It turns their whole prior knowledge of who we are upside down. Again, I am massively lucky, but not complacent. We have many challenges ahead of us.

..but you know, this can apply to lots of things... Women with children who don't tell a new partner about their child on a first date for example, men who don't say they are married... Ha ha, the list is endless.
I have no idea when the best time to tell someone would be... I really don't know when I'd have wanted to know. I think you have to wait just long enough to know if you are starting to fall for someone. Maybe that's the best time. Then it gives both parties the option to quit before you get too involved.
This is all academic for me and Emma now. We just have to deal with it as best we can.
But it is really interesting to read all your comments on here. Always good to read it from both sides.
But you have to be a bit prepared for some fall out, ever things work out ok in the end. It's a bloody huge thing to have to get your head round, but at the same time, it isn't!
X

I am trying so hard not to contradict myself on this thread and its bloody hard work.

In this I have used words like lies and deception. Those are strong words in a relationship. Then I look at Elle and Emma's situation and I see love. It is love that is keeping them together and I told Elle a while back that Emma is the same person she fell in love with! Emma is the same person but now is not how Elle first saw her but again is the same person , **** is that contradiction? Even if it is it is ment in a kind way.

To see this couple go through what they are and realy working at it is so good , it is love at work.

In a perfect world to tell the future partner or wife is the way to go and I do realise its not easy for some but it is the only way to not hurt others.
In my post above what I witnessed was was cruelty at its worst. To see that young girl in tears telling me she wanted her father to walk her up the isle at her wedding realy hurt me and she was basically a stranger untill that night to me. Then to hear him say if you don't like it then move out! Who the f#ck did he think he was? He was not a woman I know that for a fact and the word deluded has been used in this thread that suits him well.

Cristine says she should keep out of this but I think it should be me not her.

Elle and Emma . Look after each other and I hope it all works out.

xx

Personally Julia, I don't think anyone should be precluded if it is a genuinely held opinion they have. This is the great thing about GS, it works on so many levels, a credit to everyone involved.Thanks for your lovely thoughts too Julia. Xx

we`ve spoken Emma, & yours is a heart warming story, with hopefully a continuing positive future. My thoughts at the start of this thread, were certainly not judgemental. As i was guilty of with holding evidence (so to speak) My case does seem to be slightly different. As I have no wish to transition & never have. Possibly it was slightly easier to tell my wife. becouse there isn`t an agenda. I.E. I`m just happy to get dressed, & hopefully in the near future. Have a girls nights out. With certain RG friends. Crissie made a point earlier, & it is certainly true of my present & past partners. They want MEN as their partners. My transvestism is part of what makes up my persona. i do many so called girly things at home. i can saw, cook, iron. I`m happy to do the washing & fine with shopping. (Not for clothes & shoes) Which my wife loves about me. She loves that i have an opinion on her clothes & shoes. That I`m comfortable to buy her clothes, or perfume. She just isn`t comfortable with me in a dress heels & make up. I should have told her earlier in our relationship, but fell in love & suppressed the urge to dress for 10 yrs. I only started dressing again last August, & to my wifes credit. Instead of giving me a hard time. She suggested her best friend as my mentor in make up & if I want to go out, to do so with her. I doubt she would`ve been so helpful, If I`d have turned round & said "I`m really a woman trapped in a mans body & want to transition" Fortunately for me. I`m not! I admire you girls who go through this, your strength & determination. i also feel for the poor girls who thought they had found the man of their lives only to be told. Actually darling I`m not! Yes there are many reasons for the way we came out to our partners, but please don`t try & tell me it wasn`t dishonest. If you didn`t tell from the off!

I should have told her earlier in our relationship, but fell in love & suppressed the urge to dress for 10 yrs. I only started dressing again last August,

Desi I think that says it all. No real intent to be dishonest. Good thread, interesting

Well Desi you certainly started a good talking point.
What we have here is two sides to things! We see love holding couples together and love tearing them apart.
Everything I have posted here is based on what I see in real life and what I see written above (and other threads).
The real life is with out a doubt the hardest part because it takes a lot to hurt me but when I am in the same room as the ones in tears it does hurt. Knowing that I can help pick up the pieces is what keeps me going and I can only do that from real life experience. I learn virtualy everyday of my life then I can use that to help others.
However much people on this site think I am a heartless ##### makes no difference to me because its real life that matters to me. That does not mean people on here don't matter I just can't put my hand into the screen and grab someone falling . Anyone who knows me will tell you I am there for them when needed.

Life is cruel and I have had my fair share of it and human nature is cruel. Some may say (on here) that I am cruel with some comments I make but if the truth and facts hurt its not my problem and anyone can feel free to hate me for it , I will nether change. There is no book of rules on how to live life we just have to get on with it and take our chances learning as we go.

Me being transexual and knowing it from as young as I could think has by no means been easy and even today at 55 years old I still say why? But I have used it to my advantage.

I cannot pretend to know what being a cross dresser or transvestite is like because I don't , but I do know what being a woman is and its better than being a man any day so maybe thats the answer! Being able to express "your" female side then put her back in a cupboard untill she wants to come out again.

You are who you are so just be proud of it and if we could remove the words dishonest/lies/deception ect from this thread we would be living in an ideal world.

WE DON'T THOUGH.

julia, one of the things I love about you, is your honesty. It`s never with predudice or vindictive. I don`t always see things your way, but we are different people with different life experiences. Yes in an ideal world we would all be honest & no one would judge or be dissillusioned or disappointed in us. Alas that isn`t the case. i certainly have no problem with your observations darling. I`m speaking from my perspective as a transvestite. I believe I get to be comfortable in both worlds. I`m truely grateful, I am content with that. I have no idea, the pain & stress of being trapped in the wrong body. The desire to want more, i understand. As you say love can tear you apart or raise your life to wonderful hights. I tols my wife about my dressing after 2 yrs together, but didn`t dress for 10 yrs. This was my choice not hers. As the old adage goes. Once you buy a ticket. You never get off the bus! anyway! Please continue to be you, an honest & caring person, who should be treasured..... love Desi

Thank you Desi that is very sweet of you. I would never expect everyone to see things my way . We are all individuals and all have different opinions and of course different life styles. My few confrontations with a pair of certian individuals on this site at times have my membership hanging by a thread. I can be vindictive and I hate it but only when provoked by them and mainly when they lie about their lives then have the nerve to criticise my honesty about my own. I am so pleased you started this thread because it shows us all that we make mistakes and I have made some huge ones in my life. We have learned from those mistakes so lets just hope the next generation learn from ours and don't make the same ones as we all have.  xx

This post was edited by Former Member at February 21, 2013 2:25 PM GMT

All I can say, particularly to Desi, who started this thread, and to Julia, is that it is an interesting and lively debate, with no "right or wrong" answers. I am glad for you Desi that you have found true equilibrium in your life. I guess I am one of those who hasn't, yet. However, as a number of people have pointed out, I have one huge advantage on my journey-and I hope and pray she will always be by my side. I am also starting to make what I believe will be true and lasting friends here, and you are a source of comfort, inspiration and much needed humour! Love to you all. Xxxx

Emma.
My input to this thread is not about me. My life is ok and out of choice I have no partner (Yes demented people do chat me up).

I care about what goes on around me. Everyday I see ordinary couples argueing over stupid things like the price of a can of beans and I feel like saying do you want me to pay for the bloody things.
There is to much misery going on in this world. I sometimes just sit in town for a while watching others go by looking like the world is about to end. We get one life as far as I am aware so I think we should make the most of it.

Those so called ordinary people have not got a clue what we have to go through and the pain it causes.
Beans?????? I wish that was my main problem I had in life and I bet you wish it were yours.

Today is exactly one year ago since my life was threatened by that mad man with a hammer! And for what? Being me . It won't stop me from being me nothing will , I did actualy say in an interview on the radio if anyone wants to stop me being me they will have to kill me (I made it clear it was not an invitation).

My inbox on my phone today.... We are on our way to Pin Mill for a pub lunch and girly time fancy coming?. That was from some genetic female friends of mine. I am classed as one of them and its a nice feeling. I am accepted as a female in this town even though I have made it clear to all I am transexual via the media. It realy was not hard to do to gain acceptance.

I want "Everyone" to be able to feel accepted for who they are and not just what they are. I am working at it and getting there slowly all-be-it time consuming and hard work at times.

I think to much but I am never thinking of myself. I do not want to have to witness tears from others hurting , I do not want to see others argueing over gender identity (or beans). But I do like to see couples like yourself and Elle working at it to make it better , it makes a nice change. I do realise you have a way to go and you will both shed some tears but I have faith in you both. I believe you can do it. Maybe in a years time you can look back and say "We were strong and we made it together" With great big smiles on your faces and love in your hearts.

Julia xxx

Thanks Julia. always good to hear your experiences. I hope we can come back in a year too... And don't think you shouldn't be posting in this thread. I certainly value everyone's comments here, they help me a lot to understand all sides of the discussion. and to be honest, I need to feel the support! I know Emma is on my side but there isn't anyone else in our circle of friends that I can talk to. You ladies are helping me a huge amount. thanks!
I don't know if there are any other SOs about? It'd be good to hear from someone else and how they felt - did they think they were being lied to? What did they do?
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only SO here!
Desi, your wife sounds lovely, is she in here? I see you suppressed things for 10years... That's a long time. Emma did that too, maybe not for so long but... Who were you ultimately lying to? Yourselves? I'm not saying you are wrong in anyway, certainly not. just that all those years wishing it would go away must have been difficult, in fact, I can't begin to imagine...
I did feel very upset at first, thinking... Bloody hell all this time, why didn't he say something before? But if you put yourself in the other person's shoes - just when the hell would you say something?
Now I've forgotten the other thing I was going to say. Ha ha. Oh well. I'll come back later...

It's a very interesting thread.. Keep talking! X

When i say i suppressed the urge to dress, Elle.
It wasn`t that hard a hardship. As much as i enjoy dressing. It does seem more a release of a stress valve for me. I have many oppertunities to dress, as my wife works away 2-5 days a week, but i may go weeks with not bothering. Also, there have been other challenges I`ve had to face in the last 10yrs. Loss of loved ones. Moving to a new country. the wedding took a fair amount of time to organize. Being as it was in a different country to where we both lived. Starting a new life in a new country & then having to find work, learning a new language. So it hasn`t always been high on my priorities. So although it was always there in the background. It was on the back burner. So lying to myself possibly, but i didn`t see it that way. I`ve always worn thongs in all the time, but didn`t go through with the rigamarol of doing all the other stuff. Like now, i seem to have sorted out all my wardrobe. so I`m not overly concerned when i next dress. As i can when i feel for it. i also feel , I`m lucky to not have that heavy burden on me of wanting to transition. Possibly it`s easier for Transvestites, as it`s more (as far as I`m concerned) about having fun with it. I`m also lucky as i like the man in me. He`s an ok guy! It must be so awful, to hate the body your in! I`m good with mine, although Desi wishes she had a bigger bum! :-))