|
|
|
Notifications
|
|
|
|
The Times Educational Supplement published an interesting article today (3rd May) about transitioning in education and despite the recent tragic death of Lucy Meadows came out with an overall positive tone. I think that with the support of the head teacher and the board of governors of a particular school, it is probably no more difficult to transition as a teacher as it is in any other job - unless, as in the Lucy Meadows case, the media are to get involved and decide to turn it into a witch hunt against the individual. However that can happen in any profession and no doubt if the TS who hopes to get elected as an MP does succeed in her ambition, no doubt the press will consider her fair game as well.
The article can be read in full here:- http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6332441
I think that is true Carol! I believe the reason being is because children are more accepting than most adults in todays world. They are growing up now without prejudice as in the past. I often have a real good laugh with the local teenages around here who accept me a lot more than some idiot adulds all be it very few. Now all that needs to be done is to get the adulds to listen to Trans children . One of the sadest things I ever read was a case of a 10 year old who could not tell his parents about his gender feelings . He told his teachers he was not a boy in the best way he could , they dismissed his/hers crys for help as a phase even though it prolonged . He was found hanging in his/her bedroom on the last day of Summer term . It takes a lot to make me shed a tear but reading that I shed more than one.
Don't know if you ever looked at this or knew of it .
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/07/06/essex-head-praises-greatly-loved-trans-teacher/
It is in my neighbouring county.
Julia .
Here in Minnesota we have Debra Davis considered one of the pioneers of Transgendered persons to transistion in the work place. Also transitioned as a school teacher in the Minneapolis Minnesota Schools.
See: http://www.debradavis.org/gecpage/gecdeb.html
I am a Teacher. I'm in transition. The difficulty I have with articles like these is that they are telling others what it is like for Teachers to transition. That is fine. Society needs to be informed. But what happens next is others then take this type of article and use them to dictate to Teachers in transition.
Transsexuality is a relatively new phenomenon in Western Societies, at least it is under the current paradigm. Medical intervention, and social progressiveness have changed the transsexual dynamic completely. Further, each case is unique and while there are similarities, generalisations cannot be made, especially when the repercussions and ramifications are life threatening. Indeed, the Harry Benjamin and WPATH Standards of Care allow and provide for variations in the transition process in order to avoid such tragedies. To wit:
Clinical departures from these guidelines may come about because of a patient's unique anatomic, social, or psychological situation, an experienced professional’s evolving method of handling a common situation, or a research protocol. ... Even if epidemiological studies established that a similar base rate of gender identity disorders existed all over the world, it is likely that cultural differences from one country to another would alter the behavioral expressions of these conditions. Harry Benjamin SOC
Clinical departures from the SOC may come about because of a patient’s unique anatomic, social, or psychological situation; an experienced health professional’s evolving method of handling a common situation; a research protocol; lack of resources in various parts of the world; or the need for specific harm reduction strategies. WPATH
The pertinent points from the Harry Benjamin and WPATH SOC are in bold. Just to begin, there are cultural differences between the USA, UK and Australia. In other words, the different risks have been acknowledged by our medical overeers. These dangers also need to be acceded to, by all those subjectively engaged in transition; particularly those who have transitioned, those who are transitioning and those observers who take an objective view. It would be well and good for me to transition fully at my place of work but it wouldn't stop or guarantee that the discriminatory practices which occur behind the scenes would be quelled. For example, the article Carol cites points to the negative experiences of many who have transitioned in Teaching.
Personally, I don't think the point of change is in the visibility of Transsexuals transitioning anyway. Just as being Black was not the point of change in Racial Discrimination. I think I make a good point here. Therefore, change is not to be found in those undertaking the RLE. It has to occur at the level of acceptance in Society. Although Societies are changing their attitude towards transsexuality, they are still not fully prepared. It is my want to use any prologue or quote of my choosing, so I use the oft under-rated and under-utilised catch cry: "Prepare the Way." Only when societies are fully prepared, will all of us who need to transition be able to 'come out' without fear or favour. How we prepare, of course, is a completely different matter.
With Regards
Love
Chalice
PS Please acknowledge the use of my work when using it, or any part of it. Ta'
This is a classic example of acceptance. Lucy Meadows was obviously at a point in her life where anyone truely having Gender Dysphoria had to change.
She was most likely at that point where living life in the wrong gender role was killing her anyway so she done something about it for her own survival! It backfired though but that was the fault of the press and no-one else.
She could have been living a life now as a very happy teacher and woman , it was taken from her.
With all of the support of her school and pupils she must have felt she finally had a real and happy life.
That is what Gender Dysphoria does to a person. Anyone who can continue living a lie and still feel fine in the wrong Gender role is obviously not suffering from Gender Dysphoria any gender specialist would agree with that.
The press have abused my trust in the past but now it is on my terms! I see the artical before it goes to print or it does not get printed "But" I use the press or any media outlet for awareness purposes only.
A sad story where Lucy Meadows is concerned and a waste of yet another woman who had a lot to give , let us hope it is the last but I doubt it.
Julia.
But Chalice, you were only saying the other day in the Chat Room that Australia was far more open and accepting of minority groups such as gay people, transgender people etc - so
1. that cultural differences from one country to another would alter the behavioral expressions of these conditions. and
would not come into affect, except to benefit those people making the transition, making it far more acceptable to live the life that you wish to live.
Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
But Chalice, you were only saying the other day in the Chat Room that Australia was far more open and accepting of minority groups such as gay people, transgender people etc - so
cultural differences from one country to another would alter the behavioral expressions of these conditions.
would not come into affect, except to benefit those people making the transition, making it far more acceptable to live the life that you wish to live.
Well there you go! You know I had you in my sights when I said: "But what happens next is others then take this type of article and use them to dictate to Teachers in transition." I don't think it is instructive to go over the socio-demographics of my current school or to expand on the cultural milieu of the students suffice to say it would not be favourable for me to transition at the present time.
Notwithstanding, Australia is a very open minded nation but, by the same token, it is not a country prone to, or known for its, broad mindedness. I assume you know the difference. Certainly, Sydney has the largest Gay population after San Franscisco and the town where I live holds the dubious title of second biggest Gay community in Australia. There is a performing Arts School in Sydney where over half of the student population identifies as Gay and other schools have Gay support groups. Unfortunately, my school is not one of those.
Look, I get your advocacy for transsexuals in transition and those that have transitioned and I admire you for it, but as the article clearly shows, a 50-50 gamble is not an acceptable risk. I have put these points before: "Not enough consideration is given to the current philosophical paradigm of the 3rd millenium, that is a post modern existentialist standpoint, or the ethnocentric understandings of the persons for whom the most concern should be given, the transsexuals." I take it that you are not just glossing over the term ethnocentric. It is in this context that I have argued previously for a greater understanding of the individual transsexual's point of view. Indeed, both the Harry Benjamin and WPATH SOC warn against disregarding the welfare of the individual in order to advance the interests of the group.
The Overarching Treatment Goal.
The general goal of psychotherapeutic, endocrine, or surgical therapy for persons with gender identity disorders is lasting personal comfort with the gendered self in order to maximize overall psychological well-being and self-fulfillment. Harry Benjamin SOC
WPATH recognizes that health is dependent upon not only good clinical care but also social and political climates that provide and ensure social tolerance, equality, and the full rights of citizenship. Health is promoted through public policies and legal reforms that promote tolerance and equity for gender and sexual diversity and that eliminate prejudice, discrimination, and stigma. WPATH is committed to advocacy for these changes in public policies and legal reforms. WPATH
So, the phrase in bold from the WPATH quote supports my call to better prepare Society for transsexuals who transition and in my previous reply I alluded to alternatives to the RLE that you implored me to provide and which I rightfully retained and cherished. Not everything can be said in a single reply, or for that matter in a single Topic. The points I make must be seen in the full context of the SOC and complete consideration must be given to those for who the SOC exist at all. It behooves all of us to read and fully understand the SOCs, and even more importantly to be able to apply them competently to a variety of individuals and their differing social circumstances. This I think I have also said before.
Regards
With Love
Chalice
Chalice, it is all very well quoting phrases for SOC and WPATH, and maybe you know all the answers that the medics want - but at the end of the day it is about your feelings and how you feel about yourself that matters - not some dry scholarly tomb.
Chalice said:
So, the phrase in bold from the WPATH quote supports my call to better prepare Society for transsexuals who transition
If we had all waited until society was better prepared for TS's who transition, then you would be waiting forever as nobody would transition or would ever transition. You say that you are a teacher, yet you shy away from teaching society about how to treat transitioners, you are waiting for others to prepare society for the grand entrance of Chalice - well in that case, sorry, but you will be waiting forever.
For myself - and I can only ever speak for myself, I cannot feel other peoples feelings, transitioning was the only way to stay alive - my good secure, well paid and interesting job and the resultant pension at the end of my working life meant sod all to me - because I just could not carry on as I was. I sacrificed all that, and my home and a lot of my 'friends'. It wasn't a matter of "Oh, society isn't quite ready for people like me, so I'd better put it off until they are" My feelings and my instinct made me realise that this was the end of the line and that I had to do it, society ready or not.
So whilst you are pontificating about SOC and WPATH, others are doing it and gradually changing society's understanding of transsexuals cross dressers and all who fall under the transgender umbrella.
And to add to Carols response! Lucy Meadows was not a typical example of what happens to most it is a very sad example of what can go wrong. Her life was cut short in a cruel way but she was brave , it was her need to transition to find happiness. If she had been given the chance that happiness would have been passed to the children she was teaching.
Her life was not in vain! She died not as a qoute from the Bible to save others , Others will learn from this tragedy as we learn from all tragic events like this.
You can make as many qoutes as you like but qoutes do not save lives nor help put things right.
I still say say if anyone can live a life as a lie and be happy and ok about that then they do not have Gender dysphoria and I still say and gender specialist will say exactly the same .
It takes brave people to change others opinions and attitudes but it also takes desperate ones too where being brave has absolutely nothing to do with it. I believe Lucy Meadows was desperate to find her happiness and also in my eyes a very brave woman. She knew deep down inside that she could do her job a lot better just through contentment within herself.
A very sad end to a very brave and very desperate woman.
Julia.
A little like Newtons first law.
Everyones situation is individual and the greater force will prevail, regardless.
If someones particular degree of suffering from gender dysphoria is less than the suffering they anticipate as a result of transition then they wont transition.
In fact we take the easiest route.
Carol, are we on the same page?
You can aggrandise yourselves and be self-congratulatory all you want but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans if somebody attempts to transition and they don't receive the requisite acceptance they need, or they encounter an attitude of ridicule, even worse that they are met with bigotry and active resistance.
You almost dismiss my well considered and thoughtful responses out of hand however, I will reserve judgement and give some air to your objections.
Chalice, it is all very well quoting phrases for SOC and WPATH, and maybe you know all the answers that the medics want - but at the end of the day it is about your feelings and how you feel about yourself that matters - not some dry scholarly tomb.
Firstly, how would I have the answers the medics need to sign off on my transition if I did not experience a genuine gender conflict? Its not a dry scholarly tomb (nice phrase BTW), I am not resurrecting some rehearsed diatribe from the past. You cannot dismiss the Standards of Care so matter of factly. If you do then you commit the very fallacy which you accuse me of; you do not give flesh to the predicament we all share.
If we had all waited until society was better prepared for TS's who transition, then you would be waiting forever as nobody would transition or would ever transition. You say that you are a teacher, yet you shy away from teaching society about how to treat transitioners, you are waiting for others to prepare society for the grand entrance of Chalice - well in that case, sorry, but you will be waiting forever.
Saying that nobody would transition is simply nonsense. I would of thought that you of all people could do better than argue from 'opinion'. The evidence is clear, some of us can transition fully without severe difficulty, others cannot. I have no intention of becoming a martyr, especially when I know it would be misguided and detrimental to our common cause. I refrain from giving examples here because it would be too controversal, even for a radical site like this.
For myself - and I can only ever speak for myself, I cannot feel other peoples feelings, transitioning was the only way to stay alive - my good secure, well paid and interesting job and the resultant pension at the end of my working life meant sod all to me - because I just could not carry on as I was. I sacrificed all that, and my home and a lot of my 'friends'. It wasn't a matter of "Oh, society isn't quite ready for people like me, so I'd better put it off until they are" My feelings and my instinct made me realise that this was the end of the line and that I had to do it, society ready or not.
Your own personal experience, while it may have things in common with others who have transitioned, cannot be so easily transposed onto others who are yet to be received. It is not wise to advocate that others suffer just because you did. That is just immoral and unethical. There are many faults in the way some transsexuals present themselves to Society and it is simply folly to take the attitude that we can have carte blanche in our advocacy for change. We need to share the Planet, and differing opinions have to be respected.
So whilst you are pontificating about SOC and WPATH, others are doing it and gradually changing society's understanding of transsexuals, cross dressers and all who fall under the transgender umbrella.
Well this statement is plainly disappointing. It is you who is dogmatic, in contrast, I actually analyse and synthesise my arguments.
Lastly, in my case, I presented with gender dysphoria at 16 but I was given the run around by the medical profession largely due to an uninformed and infantile Society. This is where I gain the insight that transitional processes need to be multipronged. Fast forward forty years and a 16yo has less obstacles, or hoops to jump through. I draw my comparisons from here, not from my opinion compared to your opinion, nor compared to his or her opinion. In 2013, Society is more enlightened and compassionate but that doesn't mean they will hand us the keys to freedom and respect. And why should they? I don't want pity, that we deserve respect has to be proven and that means it has to be earned.
Regards
With Love
Chalice
Princess Layla said:
A little like Newtons first law.
Everyones situation is individual and the greater force will prevail, regardless.
If someones particular degree of suffering from gender dysphoria is less than the suffering they anticipate as a result of transition then they wont transition.
In fact we take the easiest route.
Indeed, yet neither route is easy. That's why both processes towards transition should be respected.
Chalice Brendale said:
Carol, are we on the same page?
This is where I draw my comparison from, not from my opinion compared to your opinion, nor compared to his or her opinion. In 2013, Society is more enlightened and compassionate but that doesn't mean they will hand us the keys to freedom and respect. And why should they? I don't want pity, that we deserve respect has to be proven and that means it has to be earned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julia Ford says.
I don't think anyone is on the same page as you! Yes you earn respect so how about you start showing some? You offend people! You have offended me on many occasions but worst of all you offended my closest and most respected friend Cristine.
You insult peoples intelligence and you are doing it again right now. Carol has what we call real life experience and so does Cristine , I am uneducated but I do have a degree of intelligence in me and I definatally have real life experience.
If all you are going to ever do is keep qouting other peoples work you are never going to earn respect "They earned it" you use it.
Julia Ford . A proud Transexual and I have no shame in who I am.
I find this kind of thing unhealthy.
So do I but thats what happens when it starts off positive then some copy and paste artist comes along. It is unheathy it is about a very sad story of a deceased woman, then it has to be all about a sad living person. Demented situation.
I am going to atempt to end my part in this thread on what others can learn from this. Firstly it is about a loss of a life. It is a tragic end to what could have been a womans dream of a happy life.
I am very passionate about the suicide rates in Trangender people , in fact I am passionate about all human life.
There is , and never was any need for this topic to be made all about another person IT IS WRONG it has been overuled by one persons selfish opinions all about their own life.
My opinions are based on the topic (or were) Suicide . The suicide rates in transgenders are out of control and unoticed by many , most transgender people do not even make aware to anyone that they are trans before they end their lives so it is a hidden statistic , it is a statistic that just gets mixed with normal suicide rates . They say it is 5 times higher but they don't know if they were unaware of that person being transgender , my guess is it is 20 times higher based on my research and calculations.
We deserve better than what we have and it is getting better but one more life is one more to many lost. I care it is a fact , I do not want to have to argue about stupid things in a serious topic , it is cruel and totally unfair to bring your own problems into such a tragic story so take them somewhere else.
Lucy Meadows! I have no belief in God but I hope you are now at peace. You could have brought so much joy and happiness to so many Children , those Children are the future , they are our future.
I feel very sad sometimes that things are exposed for what they are just through the simple act of dialogue. I am sure others have seen the same thing too but perhaps that's because they have been here longer than I have. My concern is that people know how to deal with it. In these situations pity has more warrant than mercilessness.
GB
Carol! Firstly I would like to thank you again for this interesting thread. It was about two things , acceptance in the work place and Lucy Meadows. I will not apologise for anything I have posted here and I would like to think you think there is no need for me to do so.
Acceptance in the work place? It is no more difficult for a teacher to transition than any other profession it is a fact , I believe it is proberbly easier with the support in place today than lets say a factory worker.
As for Lucy Meadows! She must have been so passionate about her work . She could have very easily just moved away and started a new life in another profession. If anyone can try to imagine how she must have been feeling! The two most important things in her life were ruined by the press Her work and her Gender both taken away from her.
I have said things in this thread from my head and my heart! They are my thoughts and my words.
The 3 lines above this post are an example of how a post looks without other peoples quotes! Not much to say really is there?.
I am out of this thread now and let us all hope that with understanding and compassion things do change very soon.
Julia .
Chalice said:
I don't want pity, that we deserve respect has to be proven and that means it has to be earned.
Well it won't be earned if you sit about on your ass all day pontificating about it. Oh, sorry, you meant earned by others who are prepared to put everything they possess on the line in order to be complete then once we have society's respect, you will feel safe enough to transition.
Chalice I am not trying to rush you into something that you are obviously not ready for, that would be insane - however, I regard it just as insane to want to change the whole concept of the RLE just to fit in with your own agenda and fears - regardless of the potential damage it could do to other people.
The thread has veered well off track now - which was about a newspaper article in the Times Educational Supplement about teachers who transition - the many successful ones who have transitioned happily in their workplace and the tragic case of Lucy Meadows - tragic not because of her fellow teachers reactions to her, nor her pupils, but tragic because the gutter press in this country decided to crucify her for their own ends.
Well I must have read a different article because the one I read was about: "making schools ... safe and accepting environments for teachers who transition gender." Reference was made to Lucy Meadows in the prologue but only as an introduction to the assistance, facilitation and development of schools in order that they can receive transsexual teachers when they transition.
Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Chalice said:
I don't want pity, that we deserve respect has to be proven and that means it has to be earned.Well it won't be earned if you sit about on your ass all day pontificating about it. Oh, sorry, you meant earned by others who are prepared to put everything they possess on the line in order to be complete then once we have society's respect, you will feel safe enough to transition.
No, not quite. I said there needs to be a multipronged approach, a kind of horses for courses approach if you like. Absolutely, the whole ball game is about transsexuals who transition but that occurs on many levels. Let's not be totally naive.
Chalice I am not trying to rush you into something that you are obviously not ready for, that would be insane - however, I regard it just as insane to want to change the whole concept of the RLE just to fit in with your own agenda and fears - regardless of the potential damage it could do to other people.
Of course I am not going to be rushed. Notwithstanding, I am ready but probably not in the way you have become familiar with. Unfortunately , I cannot say te same about my school. But I think I have moved on from my earlier formative view about the RLE. I have learned, and acknoledged in the about replies, that the SOC makes provisions for the very things I felt were lacking. We can move on from here.
The thread has veered well off track now - which was about a newspaper article in the Times Educational Supplement about teachers who transition - the many successful ones who have transitioned happily in their workplace and the tragic case of Lucy Meadows - tragic not because of her fellow teachers reactions to her, nor her pupils, but tragic because the gutter press in this country decided to crucify her for their own ends.
The work that needs to be done in schools, and not just in the UK either, is derived from the issues of social welfare and harm minimisation that I have identified from the SOC in the above replies. How is that off track?
Regards
Chalice
