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    • May 17, 2013 1:08 PM BST
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      Google avoids paying tax. Legally    In the UK. there are accountants specially trained  whose forte is legal tax avoidance.    All these members of parliment, ministers, bankers, spitting out there dummies and leaping out of their prams?   makes me wonder how many of those enjoy the services of such specialist accountants, let alone what they claim in tax free expenses for teles, washing machines for their second homes, etc, even down to dog food,   What about the cost of a pint or meal in the house of commons bars and restaurants.   more or less duty free, subsidised by the tax payer.   blame the failure of the economy on google? detracts from an inept and blind government and their short sighted  policies.  and their Fcuk you Jack i'm OK attitude.

      ____________________________________
      Cristine Jennifer Shye B.acc. BL (GS Admin) Tongue out





      Don't get angry
      when others are talking behind your back... because they're just proving
      that your life is obviously more interesting than theirs.
    • May 17, 2013 1:22 PM BST
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      the problem im having with google/amazon/npower etc is when i buy a product from them it says how much VAT (Tax) i have to pay on top for that product in a sense if they are not giving that tax to the contry they are breaking the law by miss leading me and effectively stealling my money by saying the gov is taking there cut of VAT when there not to get them the company more money so it kinder makes me wonder why all those egg heads that are trying to find a way of fining them havent thought of that yet


      playing a game gives you the idea like the first elderscrolls games its the same thing there is only so many gold coins in the game if you own all of them all the shops close down unless you start spending them

      these big companies have more money to there name than the uk dept and they just store it in banks and dont return it to the enconomy they have everyone that works for them on min wage and expect them to buy the products it just wont ever work like that

      the economy is like a wheel if 1 small part of it gets to big it stops rolling thats effectivly what happened


      This post was edited by Rebecca Armstrong at May 17, 2013 1:29 PM BST
    • May 17, 2013 1:32 PM BST
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      Your field of expertise no doubt, or one of them at least. In this country, Crissie, the onus is on the tax payer to prove they have been overtaxed. It is kind of like fleecing the ignorant. If people don't know how to conduct their tax affairs, and lets face it millions don't, then their ineptitude is the governments sufficiency. 

      You seem a bit bitter lately are you OK? lol   

      Legal tax avoidance! Isn't that an oxymoron since it implies a 'legal crime'? 

      God only knows what my sister does, she's a merchant banker in London lol  

       

      Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said:

      Google avoids paying tax. Legally    In the UK. there are accountants specially trained  whose forte is legal tax avoidance.    All these members of parliment, ministers, bankers, spitting out there dummies and leaping out of their prams?   makes me wonder how many of those enjoy the services of such specialist accountants, let alone what they claim in tax free expenses for teles, washing machines for their second homes, etc, even down to dog food,   What about the cost of a pint or meal in the house of commons bars and restaurants.   more or less duty free, subsidised by the tax payer.   blame the failure of the economy on google? detracts from an inept and blind government and their short sighted  policies.  and their Fcuk you Jack i'm OK attitude.

       

      ~*!*~

      This post was edited by Former Member at May 17, 2013 1:39 PM BST
    • May 17, 2013 1:37 PM BST
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      No Rebecca the issue here is tax on profits not VAT.    We have the highest VAT, purchase tax anywhere in the world.   Short sighted government, that if we had lower tax rates, more businesses would register here.    Many businesses have left London, the business premises rates, corporate tax and VAT is prohibative.  But VAT charged is paid to the government where the purches is made, its a direct government tax on end sales.   Corporate tax on profits which is the issue with Google is a different matter.

      ____________________________________
      Cristine Jennifer Shye B.acc. BL (GS Admin) Tongue out





      Don't get angry
      when others are talking behind your back... because they're just proving
      that your life is obviously more interesting than theirs.
    • May 17, 2013 2:01 PM BST
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      i know that the tax is well to high i laughed when the torys decided to increase it after labour lowered it i mean wtf do they even have a clue how things work or are they just plain out there to destroy our country i thing our goverment is acting like a bunch of children in a playground with the country atm they to keen on saying he said this and she said that than doing something about it


      i walked thru my old town and there are 22 shop fronts down there and 10 of them are vacant and a new cafe is opening down there its funny how its making its own building in the town square because its cheaper to do so as the rent was too high for the old woolworths store yeah shows you how long since that place was used lol 

      i know tax is a big issue but theres even more than just tax thats effecting businesses in this country our council hasnt made a single penny from 3 of them store fronts in the last 4 years and they still asking for stupid rent for them pure bad management is all i can say id rather have something there paying a penny a month than nothing in there at all lol at least you would be making something and the street would atleast look full which would attract business

      i wont even visit peterlee town center anymore its like a scene out of a Russian mafia movie with bordered up store fronts that have been empty for years  i donno how the shops that have stayed open manage to do so tbh

      and they wonder why ppl wont visit the high street anymore and would rather go on amazon etc its like they talk about the highstreet but havent been down 1 of late its sad

    • May 17, 2013 3:52 PM BST
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      I think the point Cristine is making is in the title. As in our wonderful demolition government ministers are most likely using these special tax avoidance accountants for their own gains too. After all it makes sense if they are claiming for virtually every basic need there is to live why pay tax? It is far more cheaper to pay another person to avoid it .

      And here we all are having to make cuts to survive day to day whilst they live the high life  "Austerity" what a wonderful word to preach if it does not affect them that is . Everything we buy is going up whilst our income is stagnant. My savings get no interest so I may aswell put them in the Royal Bank of Julia's Mattress. Never mind we can all bugger of to Australia and meet the decendants of a load of criminals exported from this land of ours! Or prehaps not. 

    • May 17, 2013 4:09 PM BST
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      People pay me to do their accounts, balance their books. and point out items they can claim for and they can claim for what they pay me.    If their is a legal loohole, exploit it, but I  find it two faced when the same people who make thousands leaching from  the state, preach morals when someone else does it.

      ____________________________________
      Cristine Jennifer Shye B.acc. BL (GS Admin) Tongue out





      Don't get angry
      when others are talking behind your back... because they're just proving
      that your life is obviously more interesting than theirs.
    • May 17, 2013 8:55 PM BST
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       Perhaps if the Government considered closing some of the "legal" loopholes - then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I certainly don't want to put down wealthy people for using these loopholes... and I certainly don't resent their having the money they have.

       What I do find alarming is the increase in anger (and even hatred) by so many towards those who are wealthy.

    • May 17, 2013 9:55 PM BST
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      Doanna.

       

      Its not if your poor or wealthy, its about the double standards.   So called morals, the Prime minister and his cronies are calling the large cartels imoral taking advantage of tax loopholes    When they do exactly the same thing.    I am nor wealthy by any means, but I don'r hate anyone that has more money than I have.    But a government should lead by example.   Not flaunt their oppulance and grabbing all the perks and complain when others do it. better.   There are people in this country now that either freeze to death or starve to death.   £53M a week we give to the EU to keep the fat cats and EU ministers in luxury, vast expense accounts, when 'ordinary' people are going short to pay a train fare to work.   All national industries sold of, now skimping on service and maintenance, to boost profits, even the national health service support systems all privatised to companies outside government control and now they want to sell of the roads??   will that mean our taxes will go down, not a chance, just another ploy to make the rich people get richer.   Like the sell off of the railways, higher fares and bigger subsidies from the tax payer to keep things ticking over and keep the shareholders happy.

      ____________________________________
      Cristine Jennifer Shye B.acc. BL (GS Admin) Tongue out





      Don't get angry
      when others are talking behind your back... because they're just proving
      that your life is obviously more interesting than theirs.
    • May 17, 2013 11:43 PM BST
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      All these members of parliment, ministers, bankers, spitting out there dummies and leaping out of their prams?

      Can't get that image out of my head. lol 

    • May 17, 2013 11:55 PM BST
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      Envy Hate? No it is about morals . 10.5 Billion in overseas aid to country's with industry growing faster than our own! Can't see any moral in that when people here are going without .

      Thatcher woke up one morning and thought Oh we are in a mess what shall i do? i know i will sell every asset this country has lets have a giant carboot sale and bugger what happens next . Well we can all see what happened  next , she got herself out of a hole but look at the one we are in now, this country owns nothing anymore its all been sold and the fat cats are just sitting there laughing at us . Getting a trian from here to London is a joke , at peak time its over £100 and you get to stand all the way and oh look there are 16 people in first class and loads of empty seats , stuff them first class or not if I see a seat I go sit in it , I have been threatened loads of times for being in first class with my so called second class ticket! Go on then I say take me to court I could do with a bloody good laugh . So who owns this country now? We know who's trying and failing to run it but who owns it? Some of the country's we send bloody aid to. India and Pakistan are 2 examples of that , we send them aid they buy our failing industry and guess what they make more money.

      The whole thing is demented. We produce oil but its not ours , it gets pumped accross the channel so they can sell it back to us .We produce gas and the same thing happens it goes there then comes back again.

      Cristine is right it is all about morals and the moral is we are stuffed , but the fat cats just get fatter whist we pay for it and now even good honest hard working people have to choose between food or heat and some cannot even pay the morgage. Its ok though cos the share holders are ok and the fat cats are ok and our goverment ministers are ok! So it looks like its all ok , unless your not one of those that is.

    • May 18, 2013 8:51 AM BST
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      The French, won, they own the train system, the water utilities, electric, others own the gas,  Chinese, Indians, Germans own the car industries. Rolls Royce and Jaguar.   Spaniards now own Abbey National and the Chinese own a variety of banks.   The EU dicate our laws and monetary limits.   We now have charity food banks.    MP's talk about making their salaries equall to Uero MP's, a 1000 pounds a day plus expenses.   I can only see a future of riots and anachy, police shooting protesters on the street.   Bastille day looms.    Far removed from Cromwells original equalities act and  dreams.

    • May 18, 2013 10:28 AM BST
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      And right now Cass it is up to the French wether our lights go out . This goverment will not invest in new power stations we need to keep the lights on and the only ones willing to are the French (EDF) and now they are in a position to blackmail us and are doing it now. As for riots and anachy it will come and with no lights will be far more easy . The lights will go out , unless that is our pathetic government invest in our country and stop wasting "our" money overseas.

       

      Oh look there goes another Jag or was it a Tata? Yes it was a Tata . And we send aid to that country! And I think to myself what a wonderful world . The words in that song should be updated to I think to myself what a screwed up world.

    • May 18, 2013 11:20 AM BST
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      And to add to this our gas supply is dependant on Russia and we all know what they do if they get a bit pissed with anyone . North Sea gas? it is our north sea but not our gas.

      One day there will be a big sign at every entrance to the UK.

       

      Welcome to The Peoples Republic of England.

       

      The USA is not imune from this no country is . The USA,s current national debt is close to 17 Trillion dollars and given 100 years it can never pay it off , its defense budget is 718 Trillion dollars this year and they still have not paid for the Vietnam war yet . So there sign will say.

       

       

      Welcome to the United States of China! Twinned with The Peoples Republic of England.

       

      Gone a bit off topic but you get my drift.

      This post was edited by Former Member at May 18, 2013 4:48 PM BST
    • May 20, 2013 8:10 PM BST
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      Cristine

       1) The UK, among others joined the EU. Did anyone force them to? Is their a net benefit to being in the EU? If not, perhaps the UK should either try to reform the way the EU spends money... or leave the EU.

       As for the abuse of "perks" by the Prime Minister and his cronies etc... you have a vote so "use it"

       2) Loopholes and "perks" can be removed - or adjusted. It's up to the public to make sure these things are reasonable.

       3) I get the impression that you think I am wealthy but I am not. My pension income is very good ($85,000) and I like to think I worked hard to achieve that. If/when I want more money (or get bored) I will find a way to earn more.

    • May 20, 2013 8:47 PM BST
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      Doanna

       

      Governments here are formed by the majority of members of a party by area, not individual votes for a party overall.    So 100,000 voters in one area would vote for one canditate of a party, but 3 areas with say more afluent people 10,000 people spread over each area . might get votes for 3 candidates.

      So a majority head count doesn't work, this time we have a hung parliament, meaning the majority winner, makes a deal with a party with lower votes, to make up the minimum required to win,  So they then both go back on their election promises, to stay together and stay in power.

       

      The EU, the UK members of the EU parliament, don't vote for the interestes of the UK, only what suits themselves and their cronies. they are hardly going to upset the apple cart, overturn the  feeding trough.  and I never said you were wealthy, I was arguing about its not all about wealth,  its about morals and paying tax.   Quite a few MP's have limited companies, they draw minimum wages, below the tax threshold, and then draw dividends on the compaines, paying a lot less tax,   corporation tax plus expenses being so much less all quite legal and I advise my clients to do the same,  taking advantage of the tax laws, exactly what google is doing.    So why is it imoral for google but OK for members of parliament. they won't change the law because it will affect them and so many other businesses.    I'm personally wealthy enough to vote conservative, but its their fiscal policy and double standards that I find so disgraceful.    ergo why pay someone a subsidy of £10 a tonne to dig out coal, when we can cash in personally by importing coal and put thousands on unemployment paying them 90 quid a week for doing nothing, as longs as we can blame them the coal diggers for pricing themselves out of a job.   invent job seekers, we still pay them unemployment money, but now they are no longer classed as unemployed because they are sent to supermarkets stacking shelves, and it saves the supermarkets paying 300 quid a week and their share values and investments go up.

       

      ??????????????

       

      Wheres Cassandra, she studied fiscal policy, economics and politics.

      ____________________________________
      Cristine Jennifer Shye B.acc. BL (GS Admin) Tongue out





      Don't get angry
      when others are talking behind your back... because they're just proving
      that your life is obviously more interesting than theirs.
    • May 20, 2013 9:59 PM BST
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      i couldn't agree with u more Cristine


      having worked in a business 30 hours a week for 13 weeks and only getting paid JSA £53 a week plus getting paid £21 on top to help towards bus fair £24for a week ticket btw

      yeah its a little lower than min wage and cost me to travel too it .... what wasnt broadcast on BBC and other news reports about this was that if u dont go to these things you get your JSA stopped ... also they still have this even tho they said they stopped it

      when ppl were screaming slave labour and they claimed it was educational and it wasn't mandatory they really said a ton of lies about it

      pop to the jobcenter and sign on u can do it while your working u just dont get the JSA benifit but read the terms and conditions for been paid it

      clearly states along the lines of.. if u dont do what your advisor says you need to do or dont turn up to any educational course or meeting that your advisor tells you your benifits will be stopped first strike is 13weeks it use to be 1 and second is 6months thats the new 1 i just got a few months ago

      also if u dont sign for or accept a meeting or a rescedualed meeting your benifits will be stopped thats the bit that stops you from opting out of them because u only get the option to change the date at which u start and only within a week or 2

      This post was edited by Rebecca Armstrong at May 20, 2013 10:13 PM BST
    • May 21, 2013 6:36 AM BST
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      Cristine,

       Perhaps your parliamentary system needs a good "shake-up"

       We have first-past-the-post here in Canada but most of the "ridings" have nearly the same number of constituents and each riding has only one elected member ofparliament - regardless of the afluence of the people in that particular riding.

       

      Something I have noticed about Europe in general... is that the people seem to be stifled by the enormous weight of their own REGULATIONS. It seems that every facet of life is a virtual mine field of regulations.... how sad.:(

       

    • May 21, 2013 6:56 AM BST
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      I can't believe I am reading this! Have I missed something here is it pick on Cristine and Julia month? . I will respond later I have things to do .

    • May 21, 2013 8:49 AM BST
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      im not picking on her tehe

      im in total agreement with what cristine had to say in the comment above my last 1

      and i posted why i agree with her with my personal experience

      also whats happening is against eu rules just putting that out there


      This post was edited by Rebecca Armstrong at May 21, 2013 8:51 AM BST
    • May 21, 2013 9:14 AM BST
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      You are ok Rebecca its bloody people who don't even live in this country that do my head in thinking we can cure this. .

      No time to respond now I will do it later .

       

      Julia x

    • May 21, 2013 9:03 PM BST
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      Doanna Highland said:

      Cristine

       1) The UK, among others joined the EU. Did anyone force them to? Is their a net benefit to being in the EU? If not, perhaps the UK should either try to reform the way the EU spends money... or leave the EU.

       As for the abuse of "perks" by the Prime Minister and his cronies etc... you have a vote so "use it"

       2) Loopholes and "perks" can be removed - or adjusted. It's up to the public to make sure these things are reasonable.

       3) I get the impression that you think I am wealthy but I am not. My pension income is very good ($85,000) and I like to think I worked hard to achieve that. If/when I want more money (or get bored) I will find a way to earn more.

       


      Ok then Donna as you are so smart you tell us how we get out of the EU? we have a vote do we? Well no bugger has given me one . I am getting sick of people from other country's thinking they have all the answers to solve our problems. Cass was right this will end in riots the place will just fall apart. This great nation! The one that stood up to Hitler whilst the rest of the world just watched untill it affected them is falling apart and do you know what? Your country is not imune from it either. Go sort your back yard out.

       

      http://www.debtclock.ca/

       

      Click the link above to watch your bomb waiting to go off.

       

       

      This post was edited by Former Member at May 21, 2013 9:06 PM BST
    • May 22, 2013 3:08 AM BST
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      Julia,

      1) I admit I am not totally familiar with all the "ins and outs" of the UK system, although Canada does follow the "Westminister System of Parliament. One would think that if enough people demanded that their Government get out of the EU...then it should happen.

      2) Your point is well taken, the nation that stood up to Hitler... but, just where did you think most of the pilots were trained during the war?..Canada! What Country joined the war right at the beginning? Canada! Perhaps that is MY point..what has happened to the UK in the last few decades and since the EU started?

       

      As for Debt Clock... perhaps you should take a closer look as well...at your OWN backyard Julia.

       (as of 9pm EST) (ref http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock)

       UK Pop= 61.5 million ...80% more than Canada (34 million)

       UK GDP (USD)=2.531Trillion ...only 56% more than Canada (1.756)

       National debt (USD) UK- 1.75 trillion... 2.85 times that of Canada $612 Billion

       UK debt/GDP ratio=68.95% ...1.95 times that of Canada (35.54%)

       National debt  (Debt/Citizen in USD) UK :$28,376 ...1.85 times that of Canada ($18,006)

       By the way, what is the unemployment rate in the UK? - UK(7.8), Canada (7.2) .How about France (10.6), Ireland (14.0), Portugal (17.7), Spain(27.2), Italy(11.5), Greece(27.0), Germany (5.4), Euro Area ave (12.1) ... it looks like poor old Germany is the only Country that is holding Europe together...but for how long???

       Perhaps it's better for the UK (and Germany) to get out of the EU

    • May 22, 2013 12:26 PM BST
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      just an fyi the unemployment rate in the uk is higher than what is said above as atm im not classed as unemployed in the govs eyes/figures im classed as in education even tho im still claiming JSA atm and it also doesnt include ppl that are not claiming benifits but are still not employed like jamies ex for eg that doesnt sign on but doesnt have a job and just lives off her mam and dad because shes too good for the jobcenter dam if she was my kid wow there would be a nice lesson to teach there me thinks but you see how % and numbers can be played around with but thats what polititions are paid for right to mince words so much you cant tell your s**t from your food anymore

    • May 22, 2013 2:34 PM BST
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      Donna! I lead a fairly normal life just going about my day to day things "But" I am very aware of what is going on around the world . Now there are things that piss me off! For one it is people from other country's telling us here in the UK to do the impossible . We cannot get out of the EU! We have a blackmailing prime minister who says vote for me in 2015 and i will give you the vote. If we had that vote today it would be the biggest turn out for voting ever.

       

      We can all see what is wrong with this country but David Camerwrong really does not care if he did he would fix it . We have people here in the UK who cannot afford to eat! So what is the answer? Send 10.5 Billion GPB in overseas aid , yeah thats it feed the bloody world sod UK citizens , and now they want to send more? Brilliant give them our shoes too and we can walk around bare foot.

       

      Now take a look at this

       

      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/abu-hamza-extradition-costs

       

      And that has now gone over 2 million GPB and thats without supporting his wife and 8 kids in a 5 bedroom luxury house in London all paid for by the tax payer , and Brussels says no he has to stay someone may torture him! So what does anyone here really care? No we want him gone . I was listening to some late night news on BBC radio not long ago and the police say there are more than 5000 people in London alone with known terrorist links and all they can do is watch them , because Brussels says so they have human rights you can't arrest them but how much does watching them cost?.

      We won't have to leave Europe in 2015 the way it is heading it will fall apart before then , so maybe that is the thinking behind our government just let the EU leave us.

       

      Have a nice day and if you would like a hook handed terrorist over there then you are welcome to him and his wife 8 kids and who knows how many followers you can have the lot.

      This post was edited by Former Member at May 22, 2013 2:36 PM BST
    • May 23, 2013 4:26 AM BST
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      Rebecca,
       The reason for my last post was in reply to Julia's previous post when she said "Click the link above to watch your bomb waiting to go off." referring to Canada's financial situation...as if to infer that Canada is just as bad (or worse) off as the UK.
       In Canada we have some people who believe they are too good to go to the employment office as well. Many of them also tend to "live in their parents basements" too. The percentage of those people in Canada is less than in the UK...which would actually strengthen my point - but I wanted to keep the figures directly comparable and from the same site in order to preserve the relative proportions. The facts I gave indicate that Canada is far better off and if what you say is accurate about the number of people who believe they are too good to go to the employment office, and I believe you probably are correct, then that strengthens my point further.
       I fully agree with you in that I would like to give some of them a "Stern Talking To" as well. If one of my children did that...I would toss them out "in a blink of an eye". I raised my two children all by myself as a single parent and they know how I feel about that sort of thing. This may sound un-caring, but my children know that unless they are willing to fend for themselves as adults...I will not offer help to them. In fact, one of my children was struggling at one time and was only working at a minimum wage job. I made a deal... I would pay for the education and living accommodation - provided that child maintain a decent part time job during school. The wages earned were subtracted from the living accommodation costs I paid. It cost me over $75,000 to do that - but that child now has a great career, a good work ethic, and my respect. I also don't have that to worry about ...as a result.
       As for Politicians, they all lie to some extent.

      Julia

      You said,
      1)"Donna! I lead a fairly normal life just going about my day to day things "But" I am very aware of what is going on around the world . Now there are things that piss me off! For one it is people from other country's telling us here in the UK to do the impossible . We cannot get out of the EU! We have a blackmailing prime minister who says vote for me in 2015 and i will give you the vote. If we had that vote today it would be the biggest turn out for voting ever."
       - If this is so, then you would not have made reference to the debt clock on Canada saying "Click the link above to watch your bomb waiting to go off." when clearly Canada is doing far better than the UK
       - I suspect that what really PIS_ES you off is the thought of someone not completely agreeing with something you say... in any way, shape, or form.
       - It is not blackmail when a person says "vote for me in 2015 and I will give you the vote"
       - Canada spends Billions every year in overseas aid as well
       2) "And that has now gone over 2 million GPB and thats without supporting his wife and 8 kids in a 5 bedroom luxury house in London all paid for by the tax payer , and Brussels says no he has to stay someone may torture him! So what does anyone here really care? No we want him gone... them cost?"
       - We have some of those here as well. In fact, we just tossed one of them out last week...it took 23 friggin' years and $millions to do that as well. Fortunately, we now have a government that has strengthened up our lax immigration laws and is trying to undo years of so-called "progressive" governments legislation that was responsible for letting these "no-goods" into our country in the first place.
      3) "We won't have to leave Europe in 2015 the way it is heading it will fall apart before then , so maybe that is the thinking behind our government just let the EU leave us."
       - Perhaps you are right - but it doesn't matter how it happens, as long as you are able to be rid of the EU in some manner. The EU has nearly "sapped all the marrow" out of the UK and robbed it of it's once great potential.

      .... as for the "hook handed" terrorist , his wife, and 8 kids... he'll never get into this country now that our immigration laws have been tightened.

      Doanna

    • May 23, 2013 12:10 PM BST
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      Morals double standards? I have just listened to our wonderful caring Prime Minister speaking after a meeting of C.O.B.R.A after the events in London yesterday "Effin Hypocrite" That is what he is! Cuting our police force and armed forces down to the bones "Yet" Saying he is proud of them and has his backing all the way! Yeah brilliant lets have our police replaced by plastic community support officers with not even the power to arrest anyone let alone help when in dangerous situations. My council tax bill does not get cut yet everything it is supposed to be paying for does.

       

      Donna I know what I said I said it. This is our country yet we seem to have no say in what goes on it, it will end in anachy riots and then and only then will we get this pathetic government out.

    • May 23, 2013 9:51 PM BST
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      Julia,

       I certainly am not advocating anarchy or violence...but I agree with you in that, in the case of the UK, the people do need to "take back their country".

       The predicament I see your country in is not just the work of any one particular government...but a succession of many different governments on both sides of the political spectrum.

       As for my own political position, I am fiscally quite "right of center" - but that does not mean that I oppose "social safety nets" etc. In fact, I support many social programs as long as those programs do not end up removing the incentive for one to "better ones self".

    • May 23, 2013 10:49 PM BST
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      Donna.

       

      Anarchy and violence is what we now have brewing here and you are right it is not just one goverment. Our open the gates to the UK policy is now out of control , the goverment even admits it has no idea how many illegal imigrants we have here .

      We cannot take our country back the EU won't let us , we have been invaded from within . I am not a racist I have many foreign friends but they all work and pay taxes .

      To earn the amount of money that it costs to keep Abu Hamza and his family here would equal the average wage of 50 people all put together and as far as I know he has never paid any tax to the UK nor none of his family. It is very easy to see why we get pissed off with it here.

      As for programs to better ones self ther is not much incentive .With 1 million youth unemployed and the older generation not retiring to release new jobs it is all down hill here like a sinking ship.

       

      Julia .

      This post was edited by Former Member at May 23, 2013 10:50 PM BST
    • May 23, 2013 11:00 PM BST
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      We had that type of problem...but we tightened our immigration. But I suppose the EU won't let your country do that. Isn't the new world order marvelous!!!

    • May 23, 2013 11:05 PM BST
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      And 2013 is going to be the year of the fall of this government here and a lot of trouble inbetween waiting for it to fall.

    • May 24, 2013 4:53 AM BST
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      Rather than relishing the thought that the present government may soon fall... perhaps it would be a good time to consider what constructive steps could be taken to ensure the next government does not follow in the same steps.

    • May 24, 2013 2:04 PM BST
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      "perhaps it would be a good time to consider what constructive steps could be taken to ensure the next government does not follow in the same steps."



      I completely agree with this statement.... this current set of incompetent (insert offensive name here) have done more damage to this country in the space of a few years than Labour managed in 13 years! 


      Labour lost the last election for one reason only.... Gordon Brown. Had they chosen another leader more in touch with the people of the country, then the reality is they would most likely have held on to power. As is always with governments, they will tarnish the previous government and blame them for various things and even blow things out of propartion if it suits them to do so. This being the case, the very real fact that the economy WAS starting to recover under Labour has been swept under the carpet and all mention of it has been wiped from history. 


      The big problem now is, Labour are now only a lighter shade of Blue than the Tories. In fact all of the main political parties may as well be said to be on the right wing, as even the Liberals sold out and lost any credibility and gave their backing to the Tories. 

      There is no longer a credible alternative in government that caters for anything left of centre. This may please "some" people, but the reality is...without a left wing, there is no balance to politics. Nobody to question the actions of governments with right wing agendas and this is dangerous! Dangerous for the simple reason that "choice" is now taken away from the people and without it, reasoned debate can not take place! 

       

      So what do we have to choose from? Labour...the Conservatives, Liberals, UKIP, BNP, The Green Party and numerous independants. Out of the 6 I have given name to, only one of them is close to being left wing, but their agenda is not so much about helping the ordinary every day people as it is protecting the planet and reforming various drug laws. The other 5 all range from Labours now right of centre stance to the BNP's far right views. 

       

      The biggest problem with .there ever being an alternative political party is finance! The main parties have the financial backing from supporters who have their own agendas...hence why they fund the major parties, they have the media at their finger tips to manipulate the public and they have the knowledge that they are the only ones who have the resources to get them into power. 

       

      There are the beginning of new left wing alternative parties starting to emerge and gather support, but they do not have the finances nor the backing I previously mentioned and as good as thier intentions are, they will seriously struggle to gain large support. They will probably go un-noticed purely because the main media focus will always be on the major parties. 

       

      What this country really needs is not a "Right Wing" or a "Left Wing" govenment pushing though their own agendas! It needs a government that is reasoned and capable of operating with out prejudice or acting on behalf of their financial backers and the bankers etc. It needs a government that is able to look at the big picture and make reasonable and sensible decisions about major issues and how to tackle them that does not victimise huge part of society so as to protect the bank accounts of the well off.  

      It needs a government that does not cater only for the right wing and those who follow them and the same applies for the left wing... It needs to cater for everyone!!!

       

      As we are at the moment, the only real choices we have are governments that are increasingly catering further and further  to the right wing and it is set to get worse! The left wing can not gain ground as like I mentioned it does not have the financial support to do so and as long as this continues, then this country may as well be renamed "Titanic-land" as it will just sink further and further into trouble and all because the finances of the those at the top are seen as more important than the lives and well being of those at the bottom and as long as the politicians we have are doing what their financial backers desire no reasoned debate or decisions will ever happen and that is wrong by any standards!

       

       

       

       

       

    • May 24, 2013 2:05 PM BST
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      Doanna Highland said:

      Rather than relishing the thought that the present government may soon fall... perhaps it would be a good time to consider what constructive steps could be taken to ensure the next government does not follow in the same steps.

       

      Julia Ford says.

       

      Donna are you on something? Please give us your answers on how we can make construtive steps to ensure our next government does not follow the same steps? Come on feel free to tell us the Great British public how to do it from your perfect land where you live.

      And stop insulting others intelligence too , that means people who actually know what they are talking about and mean. 

       

    • May 24, 2013 3:50 PM BST
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      @ Nicola- ahh, at last, a sensible, reasoned assessment of matters. In my opinion you forgot to factor in the press: Murdoch, the Barclays etc.etc. as well as those politicians and/or 'financial experts' who believe the sun shines out of the collective arses of Hayek, Friedmann & co.......'Economists' who, by all accounts, ignored all those awkward factors which contradicted their theories.

       

    • May 24, 2013 10:37 PM BST
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      Nicola,
       You have written an excellent piece. It is very informative, reasoned, detailed, and quite methodical. As well, you seem to be able to grasp the problems well and have articulated your position without launching into a tirade. Very commendable!
       With your type of approach, more people would be able address the problems in a rational way.
       In my country, our Political parties do not align well with those of your country. The Conservatives here are not those of the "Wealthy". In fact, since about 20 years ago, the people here have left the old style Conservative party by at first opting for a newer style conservative party(Reform party) that addresses more of the concerns of the average folk. That party eventually morphed into a new Conservative party that is very close to being only slightly "Right" on the political spectrum. It seems to work quite well in this country. I don't think we have anything similar to your Labor Party. Those parties that are close to it are far too left of center and would bankrupt the country in short order if they ever gained power.
        In our Country, the media appears to be heavily biased towards the Left of the political spectrum..go figure..

       

      Julia,
      "Julia Ford says.
      Donna are you on something? Please give us your answers on how we can make construtive steps to ensure our next government does not follow the same steps? Come on feel free to tell us the Great British public how to do it from your perfect land where you live.

      And stop insulting others intelligence too , that means people who actually know what they are talking about and mean."

      ----------------------------
      *Your reply is completely true to form and just what I would expect from you.
        You could take some lessons from Nicola instead of "flailing out"

    • May 25, 2013 9:54 AM BST
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      It isthe case with the voting system, you have to believe what the politicians, up for election, promise,  they all promise fairness, equality for all, then soon as they are in power follow their own agendas. simple.   Lying two faced scum bags, blaming it on, they did not know what a state we were in, due to the previous adminastrations inepititude.    But this present government is the sleaziest, ever.

    • May 25, 2013 10:32 AM BST
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      As it is mainly relevant to the UK, perhaps this thread should be moved to the UK forum, unless of course google and starbucks are doing the same in Canada and Australia, and the politicians are just as corupt and two faced.

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