I posted the law information, because the question was asked, I do think your both getting ahead of yourselves. I personally think you should have kept it to yourselves until you have had some proffesional help and guidance. you both seem in a sudden rush, to establish something that might not be a fact, take your time. you are both relatively young. This is going to have a permanant impact on the rest of your lives, your children, family and like it or not, future employment prospects as well. I do admire you tho for facing up to what life has dealt you, both of you..
Crissie posted the law information because the question was asked? She failed to mention she cares too. I was going to respond on that but it would have been pointless because I only know of UK laws. I knew Crissie would respond anyway.
This may sound harsh now so sorry but it is the way I am and feel.
I cases like this I will always take the side of the genetic female and any children involved. Reason? Because she never signed up to this , the children did not either. At the time of a man and woman meeting the man knows if he is trans in any form , it just does not happen over night. Miranda has taken this very well as she was unaware that this was going to happen , she married a man. My first response in this ended with "and never forgetting your children" I also said she is n amazing woman. Reason? I have in the past seen children having to be taken out of school and being taught at home because the man came out as being trans. Sorry I do have to keep using the word man because that is how these situations start "man marry's woman" they have children , then the bomb drops.
Well the bomb has dropped now so I will still wish you all involved all of the best. You should have taken this more slowly , it is not a race against time and as Crissie has pointed out you are still young. Small steps and a lot of talking is needed here along with professional support.
Take care , Julia x
Without editing the above I will just add something. It is very obvious that the two of you love each other very much. Love is a beautiful thing , it can do many things. In situations like yours it can tear you both apart or it can hold you both together. I hope for the latter for all of your sakes. I do know some people do not like the truth or reallity but this is the real world.
Again take care , Julia x
Spelling mistake edited at: 18.03 BST
Hi Miranda and Elizabeth. You seem to be doing very well. Take it steady!
Miranda, I don't know if you acted on my suggestion in my PM and found it useful. If you did, it might be good to share that with Elizabeth.
Hugs to both,
Amanda.
Thinking of you both and hoping you're doing ok.
marissa
Hi Miranda;
First, you need to know that it is ok for you to be angry.
Second, know that you really won't be able to think rationally about him or anything because you want to strangle the living sh*t out of him every time you see him. That's normal also as long as you don't act on it:)
You should remember that you are a normal person who has been put in with what most people would feel is a very unique situation.
it's good that at last things are out in the open and now you can both deal with it as a couple. It may feel like at times you're starting over.
It is my sincere hope that you can both find the silver lining in this and that things will be better from now on.
I wish you both all the best.
marissa
Miranda. An idiot? That, you are not. For whatever reason, you have been misled. Now, as a crossdresser myself, and a psychotherapist, I do - to a degree- understand why he did what he did. Now, I know neither of you, but but initial belief is that it was done through fear. Fear of losing you, fear of appearing gay, queer, call it what you will.
Whatever the reason, does not excuse the behaviour. It's really jus tthe way we are 'wired', both male and female. That is built into us. We behave the way we do because our behaviour brings a reward. To an extent, we ar just a bit like Pavlov's doggies.
I don't know if this is any use to you. Before I married, I was a cross dresser. Would I tell my meautiful ballerina girlfriend. Not on your life - I was AFRAID of the consequences. Went on for a while, but before we did marry, I told her about my activities. She was fine.
Things got rocky later, because of my guilt trips, but she tried hard to be there for me. Eventually though, it blew up.
She could handle (happily) my cross dressing, but she could not handle the way I failed to deal with my guilt.
Miranda, it is such a complex situation. There is no "one size fits all" solution. You have to work it out for yourselves, but from my experience, you can. All I can do is offer support, and keep you both in my thoughts. Love each other, please.
on a lighter note, I am just psycho...
Hi Miranda.
My description of you as an amazing woman still stands and always will. I know it sounds harsh to some that I will always take the side of the genetic female and any children involved and I have said why.
You cannot see into the future , I bet you wish you could have. You have been deceived since the day you met DH. You have every right to feel every emotion there is. That can range from anger to down to sympathy. Never fall for the sympathy DH knew what was going to come out.
Testing the water??? My answer to that is playing with your mind , this must have been hell for you. I do not want to hurt any of you but as you know and have found out the truth hurts. Stop and think who is hurting the most! I can guess who is and my guess is it is you.
So you are over the initial shock , you are pissed off and never feel guilty for that you have every right to be.
You could have gone two ways with this , stay and try to work it out to divorce. You are a strong woman and you are doing your best to work this out. You need DH to come clean on everything , and I mean everything. No more secrets and make him promise that (My opinion). I do not know the vows you took at your wedding as thay vary , if DH vows now no more secrets and more come out in your situation I would call it a day. That is just what I would do but , you have to work this out but the deception has to end , it has not has it? DH did not tell you this was still going on. I started to get concerned because it went quiet , if I had not have restarted this would it still be quiet?. There are people here who care about you you have seen that. Yes you are all far away and you were strangers but you have entered our lives now (Your story touched me). All I wish for is a happy ending which ever way it goes.
Any relationship has to be based on trust , without trust it is just pointless. To DH .......You should count yourself very lucky that your bags were not packed and thrown on the garden (if you have one) But they were not were they? If you think I am being hard on you then I am sorry but this is real. I understand gender identity and I do realise it is a very hard thing to deal with.
What would I do in your situation? put your gender feelings to one side just for a few hours and give your wife the 100% truth , leave nothing out because if you lose that trust you will lose Miranda. You will lose a very special woman (That is my opinion). Miranda must love you so much , you must realise that now more than at any time in your life. I can tell you now most wives would not still be hanging around when this happens. Make a fresh start and hide nothing. I am no expert and you have to do it your way but I have witnessed this kind of thing in the past with other couples , and I mean being in the same room not the internet. I have witnessed the hurt the pain and the tears and that is how I can relate to this.
For now I have to go . You all , and I mean all take care , but most of all take care of each other.
Julia xx
You are amazing, Miranda. Good Luck!
Hi Miranda.
I do not know if this will help but I am going to tell you a little bit about me. Most on this website already know but you do not.
Back in the 80s when Queen Victoria was on the throne I met a woman , she was a bit like you "Amazing" After about 7 days of seeing each other I knew things were getting serious. I had to decide to tell her about me or deceive her. I could not deceive her so I took my chances and told her about me knowing I could loose her. I had to take that chance because I was falling for her and she was me , 7 days is far more easy to get over and I would never had been able to hide it , I had no wish to anyway.
It was not easy but I told her , her first words were "I knew there was something different about you but I did not know what". That night we made love for the first time , the next day she said shall we go shopping?. She wanted to be a part of my life in all ways . She was what we call over here bit of a Tom boy , but a woman.
After I told her we had 23 years together with no secrets. She died in my arms whilst I was waiting for the paramedics to come , I tried CPR and I could not save her , I done all I could to get her breathing again.
Nearly 10 years on from that day there has been no one in my life as in a relationship , that could be my fault because I do get offers. No person will ever replace her.
I do not know what to call your husband so join the club I do understand though.
This part is kind of sad on my part. I posted a music video on the home page today . Pointless I will remove it when I have finished this. It is a song I relate to in some ways , I will put the link below but , ignore the words "No one ever cares if I should live or die" Because they do care.
My family hate me that is a fact but , I have something they do not have , I am happy and far to many friends.
Take care , all of you in your family , love is an amazing thing and it does hurt at times and it tests your love for each other . You remind me of my partner in many ways. You are a very special woman never forget that.
Julia xx
Miranda Thomas - you amaze me. I'm not an overly emotional person, but when I read your post, I found that my spectacles were misting over. It must be very humid today, I suppose. I do hope that you are going to stay with us here. Possibly unintentionally, you are being a great help to others . Apart from anything else, I'd miss you.
Stay strong, both of you.
Hugs, Amanda
She is one very amazing woman Amanda. Miranda and her coming here to GS makes this website and membership here all worth while. It shows that there are people here who care however distant they may be in miles apart. If I need a reason to be here then this is one very good example.
Take care , Julia x
I agree with the other posters you are an amazing woman Miranda I've been married 36 years this year, when my wife first found out she felt betrayed and decieved that I'd not been honest before we married, I said to her although I knew I was different to other men I didn't know my self, it wasn't until I found sites like GS I realised I was Gender Dysphoric and that I was living in the wrong body now whether any thing will change that I don't no, were still married by the way ok we live more as friends but she still here which from a selfish point of view I'm please as I'm disabled which as it's own issues to deal with.
Hi Miranda;
Please remember that we are here for both you and DH to support you in anyway possible.
Post edited @ 17.58 BST
As Marissa says above "We are here for both of you" .
Take care and love to you all.
Julia x
I have removed the statistics I posted on this topic in the post above. The idea of bringing it to attention was to show the great support being offered here not to bring it to a halt.
This thread is a perfect example of (1) How love can hold a family together or tear it apart (2) It is raising awareness on how this affects all involved (3) It is a lesson in how "Not" to start a relationship (4) It is a lesson in working together to find the answers to a problem.
I hope others can learn from Mirandas story and be 100% honest with each other "Before" Things get to serious. Future generations can learn from this . Life can be very cruel at times and the only way to stop the hurt is to be up front from the start. We would not be reading this or responding to it if the honesty was there at the begining would we? . That is the proof.
Take care , Julia xx
Sorry Miranda I was typing and thinking then checking my post as you were posting your post. Thank you for your post I thought the statistics I posted had scared everyone .
So DH is she now for sure? Is that how you prefer us to refer to DH? from now?. I hope you have both looked into the effects of HRT and are both very sure.
My way of coming out was very different from most but I will post it if you wish , just ask if you wish to know.
Take care , Julia xx
I can only tell you how it has been for me so far. I am very aware I'm a older than most folks transitioning. I have only come out to a few people, mostly friends and I have found that once they get over their initial surprisethey have been welcoming and very supportive. My anxiety level is extreme every time I come out to a new person but I have been met with nothing but love thus far. I know there will be a time where I won't be welcomed or accepted and that is why I think I get so spun up each time. Maybe I can break some new ground on behalf of all us girls here in middle nowhere in the midwest. I think we all want to be accepted for who we really are inside. I desperatlely want to see the girl I can be in the mirror everyday. that's why I am trying to go forward. Where I will end up is a mystery. As long as it's not on a milk carton, I'll be happy. I just want to make some friends who understand me and where my journey is taking me. Anything more than that would be a wondrous thing.
xo
marissa
To start Miranda you amaze me more everyday. She says she's 100% sure and has been for many years and felt like a woman since puberty? Why Oh why could she not tell you at the start? . But that is history now and this is the present and you are dealing with this very well. I wish her luck at the Drs .
My coming out was not very pretty and I will have to cut it short.
At the age of 10 my Father was killed at work , I blamed myself for that for a very long time. To him I was his little boy and I knew different. Not long after my Father died my Mother took a severe disliking to me , she thought I was strange , she beat me often and broke a few bones along the way.
At the age of twelve I had had enough of pretending and let it out at school , big mistake but I could not stand it . I was then raped by a male teacher and my education ended that day. That may not sound like coming out but at the age of twelve it was the first time I let everyone around me know I was a girl not a boy.
Jumping to age 16. I tried very hard to be like the others but it just would not work. I pushed one girl after another to the side , I think the longest I had a girlfriend for was about 5 days.
Jumping to my 20s. I have told you of my deceased partner , you remind me of her in some ways with your open mind. We met and she was in a broken marriage , her husband beat her often. Something drew us together and I had no choice but to tell her about me being Transexual . I could not hide it and was not willing to and she accepted me and we fell in love.
We had 23 years together before she suddenly died , she just woke up one day and within an hour she was gone.
I fell into a deep depression and was being treated for it by my Doctor. One day I realised that I had accepted she was gone but I was still depressed .
I had to make a decision because I was going to end my life. I walked into my doctors and told her everything and told her if she does not help me I will be dead very soon , I was wasting away anyway. She asked me to give her 2 days to do some research as she had never had a Transexual patient before. I returned 2 days later and she was amazing , I asked her for the one thing I need to keep me alive , HRT and Blockers. I signed a consent form and she gave me a prescription. Within 6 weeks I had slowly stopped taking the anti depressants , I shocked her when she said you look a lot better and happy and she said the anti depressants must be working now. I said no! I do not take them anymore , it was the HRT , I finally at the age of 47 had female blood running through my veins to match my mind.
Coming out was very easy for me. I put the last of the male related items I owned in the bin and watched them go into the back of the waste truck to go to landfill. I had no choice but to walk out of my door as a female , I was a female but everyone in my small village only knew me as a male. So the 1000 people in the village had to get used to me.
They ignored me , and they crossed the road to avoid me and it was pissing me off . So when they crossed the road I thought I can cross roads and I did , I told myself over and over you will talk to me. Within 6 weeks I was accepted through sheer detemination of wanting them to see I was happy. I was invited to the local pub and other things and they were as amazed as my doctor of the change in me , not the gender change the personallity change. After 6 years in that village , 4 as a male and 2 as a female I had to move to a more populated area . They wanted me to stay , yes the ones that would not talk to me at the start wanted me to stay , some begged me to stay but I had to move on.
I moved to Ipswich which was my place of birth , it has a population of about 150.000. Being away from here for well over 30 years at the time no one knew me. It was a fresh start but after 3 months here my life was threatened by a mad man with a hammer , he was dealt with by the courts.
Here where I live now I did not have to come out! I came in , I entered a town as a female and I will very soon be opening my own business here. I have been accepted and I just blend in with the rest of the females in the community , I am just another woman it is as simple as that. This could be a book really and I have been asked to write it , maybe one day but for now I have to concentrate on being the first Transexual woman to open a business here.
That is a very short version of some of my life. Take care , Julia xx
This was edited at 14.26 BST Because I was very tired when I typed it.
Hi Miranda.
Thank You and there is no need to be sorry. The one thing I have only ever wanted in my life is just to be accepted for who I am. Yes it did take strengths I never knew I had , it has been like a battle and I done the hardest part very alone.
Yes they can be called horrors but , others have learned from me and it is only recently I have spoken about those horrors to others , mainly the rape.
Not so long ago now I gave a presentation at my local college to over 100 teachers and some trainee's.
Without a thought of what I was going to say I just stood in front of the microphone and looked straight at them and spoke. I made a lot of them cry! Yes I reduced adults to tears, the one thing I would never allow anyone to see me do as a child "Shed a tear" . They tried to break me back then but , in reality they just made me more determined to beat them and as a child I did.
I was asked after my presentation if I would be willing to make an awareness video for the local education department , the answer was a very easy "Yes" because it still goe's on today. Young transgenders are ending their own lives! Not because they are transgendered , because of the way they are treated by a minority. As an adult others have put walls up in front of me and I just knock them down , it has finally sunk in that Julia Ford is here to stay. Now it is my turn to build something (not walls) my business.
Sorry if I have gone off topic. Take care , Julia xx
Hi Miranda.
RE: Your post above posted @ 1:29 AM BST 22nd August.
I am finding it hard to take in that any therapist can diagnose anyone with just one appointment. I am not saying it cannot be done it is just a long process and needs great caution. The caution is in the next stage of prescribing any HRT. Once that HRT starts it is the road to never being able to produce children again , or in early stage's deformed in some way.
I do not think I have in this thread given you any direct advice and I am not going to start now because I am not qualified.
This is not just about the two of you! It is about everyone in your lives. Your children to start . Now I personally think they are going to grow up with two very loving parents. They are not of an age where they will understand this at the moment , I hope they grow up understanding and with your love I am sure they will. Your family! You have already told some and they seem okay at the moment. You will find some along the way who will not or do not want to understand so be prepared to loose them. Friends! You may loose some but then again you may gain some .
You are a very understanding and special woman but not everyone is like you as you know. None of the above is advice and I guess you are prepared for any fall out. Please only ever take advice from qualified people. If you trust the Therapist then that is fine as they are qualified.
I will give you some advice as this needs no qualification. Your sexuality is your business! Your future is your business! Your lives are your business. GS is a great place to ask questions and find support . Any questions asked by you both when answered please never follow another members road. You are intelligent I know that but , never think it worked for them so it will for us , you are unique as an individual and as a couple and a family , this is your road and it is your lives.
As always I wish you all the best and please both take care , Julia xx
I have to say that I am surprised that such a firm diganosis could be reached and forward prgress to hormone treatment was made on the basis of a what, 50 minute conversation. That said, I hope all turns out well for both!
Miranda Thomas said:
Update: so she was officially diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The therapist made her an appt with an endcrinologist next Friday to figure out hormones.
Rather worrying, ones gender specialist should take a long term interest, supervising on going care, evaluations, progress, hardly seems like there is time before the endos appointment for a doctor to get involved to evaluate any medical/health problems. perhaps paying has speeded up the progress, but to my knowlege no reputable surgeon will carry out any procedures without a full history of supervision and ongoing health care and psychiatric evaluations.
There is no harm in getting all the information you can so you BOTH can make an informed decision. I wish both all the best.