Nina--

The Screwtape Letters is a wonderful book. It should be required reading in High School.

Disclosure:

I had an uncle (God rest him) who was a pilot for American Airlines in the 1980's. I have another uncle who at that time was a pilot for what was then Republic Airlines (now part of Northwest.) He continues to fly as a private pilot for hire these days. I have an aunt who was a flight attendant for American as well.

People lost their lives on that Pan Am flight, and ultimately, we all lost a very good airline, with a long, storied past.

Do you suspect I was worried about a plane with a family member getting zeked out of the sky by some deranged lunatic for a few years?

Further: Daddy went to Vietnam, as a navigator on US Navy flights. That's about all I know; he wouldn't--or couldn't, as he he top security clearances--talk about it for years, and it was only about six years ago he admitted that part of his health issues "might possibly" be related to Agent Orange. When he died, I had the honor of placing his medals in a display case. I could tell you what they were--but even his DD214 was not much help in telling me the "how" he got them.

Vietnam was a long, ugly, mess.

Perhaps all the above is what set me off on this thread. As you mentioned, the sufferings of others wends its way into our collective psyche and sets there and festers for years...or even decades. I suspect what Daddy saw in 'Nam--regardless of what other chemicals might have done--affected him far, far more than any of us knew or could know.

Perhaps this is also why us Americans are so touchy about this. This was supposed to be a finally closed chapter.

Looks like it wasn't, after all.

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Rae your right, I had let my emotions get away from me. I love my home, I bleed red white & blue.
But I don't like what politicians have done to it.
Also I do think crimes should be punished very heavy handed. But that might be because I live near Detroit. Crime & murder is an everyday thing. The latest bad thing is about a young man randomly beaten & murderd than dumped in a field in the city proper. This accured not 2 streets over & his family is devistated.
Murders are in & out of prison to kill again & again. Our justis system sucks & people are getting upset about it.

Woops,sorry Tracy but I was trying to buid a few briges there,mend fences and stuff because the line between good and evil was clearer then.By the way I thought holocaust deniers were all neofascists-certainly not 'Liberals'.
Just another observation and meant in friendship;just after Iwas born the old man and his mates bombed a place called Houfallise in the Ardennes-igives me a strange thrill to think that your old man and his buddies might have raised their heads and seen the Lancs overhead though I suspect they were too late,your dads mates had done so well.It grieves me that you misunderstood me-I also remember foodparcels and comics=GI Joe I think and smoking ;Luckies'-please lets be friends or I'll spoil my mascara-proud to know you all,Nina-xx

Absolutely no worries Karen [hug].

You have an interesting point. Where someone lives must colour their judgement to some degree. I am very fortunate to live in a pleasant village slightly off the beaten track. There's no reason for anyone to come through the village as the roads to anywhere are elsewhere! Crime, touch wood, is virtually non-existent and I don't have to worry too much about locking my doors at night.

And there's nothing wrong with being patriotic either.

Just letting you know you do have friends over here, hunni, even if we're only the cyber kind.

Much love

Rae xxx

Minako,thanks for that kind remark re CS.Lewis-was worried I was about to kick off WW3 ! A powerful myth,tract,homily whatever and right up there with Animal Farm by George Orwell though another favourite and fellow countryman now were being patriotic is Quentin Crisp and possibly a bit more relevant to our lifestyle .Can I say that its great that fraught as this thread has been weve managed a serious level of debate and this not just among people who share our values and politics-thats easy-but among people who are quite polarised and which I found distressing (a bit!) though strangely stimulating and all this without any sexual innuendo though I'M OK with that!
Going to peruse your downloaded book,Minako,now I hope were friends-whats so bad with you people about being liberal?I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said we are two people divided by thresame language.Think he was right-we get our wires crossed and cause offence without meaning to.Sorry if I've caused any pain-PAX? Nina p.xx-Hugs'n stuff.

nina...it's cool...

I just want to be one that reminds others to maintain their vigil, as sad as that may be...I cannot,nor will ever trust those who go on record as saying they will never rest until the rest of us are annihilated (extreme but close in theme)...

none of my comments are meant to be derogatory toward any member in here...just me being me and reacting to my feelings...soooooooo, love me or leave me, but it is often difficult to ignore me! LOL

Peace to all...

Traci xxxxx

This is not an exception for Al-Megrahi, this is a law that has been around for a long time in scotland. So you could argue that America knew of this law beforehand Al-Megrahi was sentenced. You could also argue that the only reason Libya agreed to hand him over to a dutch court and for sentencing in scotland is because they felt as though he would be treated with respect. Maybe he doesn't deserve that, but the fact is that America's intransigence meant that he would never have been handed over to the states.

So maybe you should compare some justice in a scottish prison (maybe not enough, but at least some) with absolutely no justice at all because he wouldn't have been handed over to the americans, so would have continued to live as a free man.

it's fairly obvious that once released his reception back in Libya was out of the control of the Scottish system, and the reaction is irrelevant: Wrong is wrong, regardless of the celebation: Right is right.... decide either way, but don't let the libyan reaction sway that decision.

personally I think it's a brave and incredibly difficult decision to make. It would have been easier to allow him to die in prison - but if you've got any pretence of a fair legal system then you can't make decisions based on whether it's good or bad PR. You make the correct decision under your law, and you apply it as necessary to each case on its merits. The law is that if the person is within 3 months of dying due to some terminal illness and this i agreed on by several doctors, then they can be released on compassionate grounds. There isn't a sub-clause that says (unless it pisses off the Americans)

If you agree with the law or not is up to you, but if you do, then it would be incredibly unjust to let press reaction decide for you who to apply it to.

Before any Americans start to say they disagree and it would never happen there, it might be worth pointing out that 36 out of the 50 US states prison systems have similar schemes in place, some to a greater degree of leniancy, some to a less.

Minako,I love it,particularly your notion of 'Signaiture Style'-lots of food for thought in this quest for femininity-though I seem to be pursuing a decidedly kinky path(and enjoying it) finding my new BDSM friends a tolerant,amusing, highly intelligent and a kindly lot-more so than my Christian friends though that is another path-interesting how much we have in common after all the 'sound and fury'! Bags of 'flak and Fighters' and back in time for tea,What! Cheerio and Happy Landings-Hugs'n stuff,Nina-xxx

Nina, hon--

Over here, the joke is that "All a Conservative is, is a Liberal with a teenage daughter."

Glad you like the book, dear.

heiwa (Peace, harmony) to you as well.

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Traci said in more eloquent terms concerning terrorism better than I ever could . Personally I would love to have the opportunity to have done him in slowly the way I have seen the Mexican drug dealers shut down an informant in Texas ! Ellen Shaver

Mattrers arising.........

True,Marsha,you weren't specifically talking about Europe in connection with Hitler.However,I think it is all too easy to judge with the benefits of hindsight and distance.This is also valid for Tracie's comments-it's always easy to be wise(r) after the event.As far as I can make out it would have been possible to stop Hitler early in his career but,and it's a big but,those who could have done it were all too well aware that their own populations were far too war-weary for the job which would have,of necessity,been military.And don't forget,those who were in a position to perhaps take action had seen the necessary courage destroyed by their own experiences in the mud and trenches of France,Flanders,Gallipoli etc etc.The last First World War soldier,who died recently in the UK,came back from the trenches a confirmed pacifist...and he almost certainly wasn't the only one who came back thinking that way....Internal opposition in Germany?Yes,there was but it had as much chance of stopping things as your opposition had of stopping Dubya's adventure in Iraq,given all the propoganda and hype that was put out beforehand.

I think you'll find that the official uproar in Washington over el-Meghari's release is purely for public consumption.Given the very real possibility that the court appeal in Edinburgh could have been extremely embarrassing for the governments in Washington and London,I think it's very likely that ,in the light of Guantanamo,Abu Ghureib,etc etc,the release was the preferred option.Interestingly,el-Meghari was apparently not given an official welcome at the airport......

And,since Hitler and Nazis have been mentioned in this thread..........in view of recent events in the US....I wasn't aware that Barack Obama's Health Service proposals were actually formulated in Lincoln,Nebraska.......................


ciao

Lynn

Lynn you are right about hind sight giving you reason to wish things were handled differently in the past. I guess in someways I do see this situation in the same way. I don't really see the terrorists stopping what they are doing in the long run, but I do feel as centuries of history have shown that there can be periods of rest. I fear acts like this only give those supporting terrorism reason to continue their battle instead of allowing this current conflict to burnout.

As for Barack Obama's healthcare proposal, I hate to tell you this but you are wrong. Obama has no healthcare proposal of his own, he has only called on congress to come up with one. As is typical with any complex bill, many institutions are enlisted to formulate such bills. More often than not you have a multitude of special interest groups trying to have input into shaping the final program to benefit their interests. In this case you have employers, hospitals, insurances companies and many others trying to shape a complex program. No wonder most the politicians don't know what is in the 1000+ pages of this bill. Probably what is the biggest issue is Obama wants this program now. Without arguing whether we should have government run healthcare or not, the complexity of this issue is such that it should not be rushed.

Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha,

what has arrived in the press over here is that, irrespective of the actual state of play re the health care proposals, opponents are viewing the very idea as, amongst other things, the ultimate realisation of the Nazi euthanasia programme.........and saying so extremely loudly. Hence the jibe about Lincoln, Neb. I'm sure I don't have to tell you which political organisation has its base there.


ciao

Lynn

This is a bit off-topic and I apologise to Anna-Marie for that. What is wrong with universal health care for all when the option of increased health care is available, as it is in Britain, for those who can afford to pay. If a Government cannot do right by its people and seek to increase the quality of their lives then why do we have them. Money is squandered on weapons we cannot use, wars that we needn't fight and tax cuts for those who don't need them. Universal health care is something that would benefit all regardless of background, income, class and race. We should applaud that.

Mianako,thanks for being so magnaminous considering one got rather heated during the week! I would like to add you to my friends if you dont mind-I love books as well as painting but I dont want to bore the more political sisters-though wary of religion I feel I share a similar committment though predictably Liberal as I am.Actually,hon,I think we have established that these terms are too crude as we share so much in common as well as our strange quest-'Oh for the wings of a dove!'xxx'n hugs,Nina P.

Slightly out of the context, my dear kid sis A-M, would you agree if a Scottish government were to declare an independent Scotland outside the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

But, Marsha m'dear, that's a very seperate issue.

I have little doubt that Mr Megrahi could have featured as part of a prisoner transfer deal. And, had that have happened, I would have had little interest in the resulting hullaballoo.

As it happened, it didn't. So to speak.

He was, instead, released on compassionate grounds as any dying person should be.

Much love

Rae xxx

LOL, but Rae, everyone else here likes government conspiracy stories so just because they said it was for compassionate reasons pretty much doesn't mean squat. Hey lots of people said Bush's war was for oil, how does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot, Al-Megrahi for oil.

This is coming from your news, not the U.S. news
http://uk.reuters.com/art[...]0090830

Hugs,
Marsha

Times online

I found this artical on many news sites.

Seems it wasn't about compasion at all. But money. Though I didn't agree with it, I would rather it was compasion.
I guess world powers have to do what they have to do. They did try to keep him but money talks.

Marsha, not saying our Government hasn't been handed a couple of barrels of oil under one murky counter or another. That's just a side issue. [Or is Mr Megrahi the side issue???]. Under a prisoner transfer agreement he would have served some or the remainder of his sentence in Libya [theoretically at least] whereas a compassionate release is a different animal completely.
TBH I have no problems with exchanging the guy for an oil deal if that was originally planned, as part of a prisoner transfer deal. My disagreement here is that a dying man is released on compassionate grounds - an act of Christian charity one could say - and some people bay like animals in outrage. That is distasteful.
In many ways the original idea would have been simpler and those who disagreed could have said so as often and as loud as they wished without the unfortunate consequence of appearing inhumane.
As for your parting remark, whilst chuckling at the sentiment, I'm afraid our two countries have very different sized feet...

Much love hunni,

Rae xxx

Yes i would Tiina, but i'd rather see the Scots people vote on it. If its truly what they want, & its been decided in a democratic manner then i reckon they should go for it.


Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna-Marie

We can argue the rights & wrongs of the Megrahi case and the decision to release him on " compassionate" grounds until we're blue in the face, but it wont make any difference because the decision's been made & it can't be changed. So maybe we should let the matter rest.



Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna-Marie

Rae your still saying he was released on compassionate grounds. Did you read the artical? It had nothing to do with compassion. When the prisioner exchange was being worked out they tried to keep him out of it. But Libya forced the issue.
The oil deal hinged on it. Once he was inclued the oil deal was done in only a couple of days.

Also let me say that the real reason I was against it was that others may want to be like him. Extremist will use him as a role model to show how weak the west is.

The reason that any questionable political decision is argued before and after is to ensure politicians are held accountable for their actions. They need to know that their constituents along with others are affected by every decision they make. Of course nothing can now be done to change the Al-Megrahi decision, but we can learn from it so that in the future similar decisions can be handled in a better way.
Hugs,
Marsha

There have been no comments from our members resident in Scotland.

Karen, hunni,

Rest assured I have read many of the news reports online and paid attention to the tv bulletins.

The point I was trying to make - granted, in my usual clumsy way - is that we have two very seperate issues here which can easily be muddied into one.
The first is the prisoner transfer agreement being alluded to back in 2007. This is where a prisoner from here would be transferred from a jail here to a jail elsewhere, in this case Libya, to serve out the rest of his sentence. Though, obviously, I cannot say what the Libyans would have done a few months down the line. That is what the reports were about. It is fairly obvious he would have been part of any commercial negotiations given that he is the most high profile libyan prisoner in our jail system. Not a real shocker in my view.

The second thing is that, two years down the line, his health has deteriorated and, under existing Scottish Law, it was decided to release him on compassionate grounds to die in his home country. Not as part of a prisoner transfer agreement as was mooted two years ago and being reported now as sensationally 'new' news.

I'm not saying that, perhaps, some in political circles didn't breath a sigh of relief as they can - accurately - point out that the release was on compassionate grounds and no-one has to worry too much about a bit of oil flowing this way.

The sad part of the story is that, whilst it was quite appropriate for him to have been considered for pta back then, it is now overshadowing an otherwise exemplory humanitarian gesture.

Hope that clarifies things a tadge...

Much love

Rae xxx

'...but we can learn from it so that in the future similar decisions can be handled in a better way...'

Marsha, I know we'll just have to agree to disagree. IMHO it was handled perfectly well, just unfortunate he'd been subject to earlier negotiations.

Much love

Rae xxx

Joanne,

I cannot explain that. However in a recent poll a very high percentage of Scots stated they disagreed with the release.

Much love

Rae x

[who boasts a fine and long Scottish pedigree embracing the clan Ross and most of Scotlands former royalty. Apparently].

You know I will always love you to Rae. I love lots of opinions, but I think some take everything too personal.
Hugs,
Marsha

Marsha, without this turning into a Marsha / Rae love fest, you know I have so much love and admiration for you

The rest of T-Dubya [ooh! Could'nt resist!] What's wrong with agreeing to disagree? Crikey, if we all held the same opinion it would be - as we say in Dorset - bleddy boring!

AM, you're right, we could debate ad infinitum. I think I've had my say and put my pov across. Its your thread hunni, if you feel we've gone as far as learned adults can then I'm happy to withdraw from the battle...

And finally, I don't care what anybody else thinks - I'm proud of most of the members of this site and feel truly blessed to be part of TW

[Definately hot chocolate and bed time!]

Much love

Rae xxx

The Magazine 'Private Eye' now seems to have sorted out the download problems with Paul Foot's "Lockerbie,The Flight from Justice". I haven't had time to read all of it yet,but even Chapter 1,the events immediately after the blast,throws up some hair-raising question-it seems that all the secret services involved knew that Iran and a Palestinian group were behind the bombing, and even named names.

I recommend this as essential reading,especially for those of a 'shoot first and ask questions afterwards' persuasion.After one chapter my initial impression is that a former US president and a former UK Prime minister should be imprisoned for conspiring to pervert the course of justice..........It's well worth the fiver/$8.00 US.

It does occur to me that any of you in the US ordering this might have problems with your Homeland Defence people-you'll be downloading a publication which may possibly be seen as subversive...............................................

Finally,Paul Foot didn't do conspiracy theories.(Unfortunately he died a couple of years ago).

Lynn

Lynn--

**grins**

How do you know he died? Maybe he was "eradicated" for exposing the truth....

Aside from which, The Ministry of Homeland Security would most definitely be interested in anyone reading such subversive material. It might be deemed offensive to Comrade Obama, and we wouldn't want that now, would we?

**sighs**

Maybe he was right. Maybe not. I don't know.

What I DO know is the man found guilty was released early to die in dignity, which is really more than I can say for the people on the flight.

Those people didn't ask to die.

And just today I read where the UK had a vested interest in this cat's release. Read it here.

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Comrade Obama???????????
You yanks are just so naive,

Becca

Rebecca--

Honey, I don't know why I bother. All references to Comrade Obama and his brand of socialism are sarcastic in nature. Once again, sarcasm and irony is wasted online.

Or, in short: IT'S A FRICKIN' JOKE!!!

So get over it.

Mina

Becca...

I beg to differ...Obama is a front man for a bunch of people who have been tearing apart the foundation of the country which was written over 220 years ago...if you are OK with socialism, then he's your boy...me, personally, believe in less government as was proffered by our founding fathers. Heck, it was the reason we dumped all that tea in Boston to piss off you Brits in the first place.

You look at all the institutions that the US govt. has taken charge of in the past 100 years and virtually everyone one of them is bankrupt or run down. Government stiffles innovation, free thinking, and treats it's subjects like feudal serfs. OUR governemt is supposed to be there to support our people, not tell them how and what to do...maybe that's cool in the UK or France, but it doesn't sit well across the pond and I truly think you're going to witness a major uprising from the "silent majority" if it continues...like my forefathers, I will make an ultimate sacrifice to ensure future generations of freedom loving Americans never have to live under the blanket of "know-it-all" politicians and their like.

Naive my arse....

Time for the UKers to take a good look at what YOU'VE become if you ask me...

Bring it on girls....I opened my yap and am tough enough to take any and all comments...but I will NEVER stand for my America turning into socialist Russia or whatever...

Arrrrggghhhh......can't we just talk about make up and hair styles and supporting each other thru transition instead of this???

Traci

I don't quite understand the need for the " I disagree with you violently but really I love you with all my heart ", that seems to go on all the time. Are you really all that insecure. I have disagreed with people on TW but I don't immediately assume they hate me for having done so. Maybe they do hate me, but I don't assume it. So, putting the love fest aside for a moment. Paul Foot was a brilliant investigative journalist and is sorely missed in our increasingly comply or die world. His credibility, however, was always undermined by his close association with the Socialist Workers' Party, one of the most undemocratic and intolerant organisations you will find anywhere, and I speak from experience. As for the remark about an exemplary humane gesture? I suggest you tell that to the families who lost a loved one at Lockerbie. I personally don't believe Megrahi was guilty, or at least he didn't act alone. The hero's welcome he was given in Libya has made me think again. He was found guilty in a court of law and never proved his innocence. If he was guilty of that atrocity then he is not worthy of our humanity. Just where do you stop with humane gestures. That is the sort of wishy-washy liberalism that makes one hanker for a totalitarian regime.

Thank you Porsha...thank you , thank you, thank you! (smile)

Traci

Always clear as mud, porscha. For my part I don't have a single insecurity.

Not sure I'd like to see the thread descend to the level you suggest, Traci, crikey! It appears that a simple discussion over compassionate release is a little complicated without widening the issue to cover socialism, Russia, British colonialism et al...

[BTW, I thought the tea saga was just a tax evasion ploy???]

Much love

Rae x

LOL....it's all good Rae...we are not responsible for things done in the past...but we ARE responsible for things that will affect the future...

And I do respect other opinions although I won't always agree....another nice thing about the old USA...'fraid that's coming to e=an end too....oh shoot, here we go again...LOL

Keep up the dialog, it is really refreshing to hear opinions from those on the other side of things...helps frame perspective...and unless you're coming over to blow my head off, any and comments are valid...

Traci

Traci, there is NOTHING wrong with what us brits have become. Ok, we do have one or two bad eggs but do NOT tar us all with the same brush cos it aint fair

Lol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Anna-Marie

Yep, it would be boring if we agreed all the time - and nothing could be learnt!

I had it in the back of my mind, that if you came back with a strong post, I was going to point out that some things I say are somewhat tongue in cheek. The sentence I had planned to use was: these days, hunni, the only thing in my cheek is my tongue.

Your last paragraph saying:'unless you're coming over to blow my head off' sort of put a different slant on it...

The English language is a wonderull thing.

Much love

Rae x

Yeah, it was a bit harsh...and WE should talk here in the USA, huh?

Traci xxxx

LOL

Porscha,

that he was a member of the SWP doesn't necessarily diminish the quality or the truth of what he wrote,and that is particularly true of his Lockerbie investigation.He just lets events speak for themselves,without any resort to political polemic.He also includes the report of the UN observer at the trial-a report which slams the trial and the verdict.Read Paul Foot's report-it's not SWP agit-prop-honest!

I've now read the report and the following picture emerges:

Putting the blame on Libya,2 years after the explosion,was simple political expediency.The US needed Syria foas an ally in the First Gulf War against Saddam,Continuing to blame Syria/Iran/the PFLP would have been counterproductive in this connection.

Gaddafi found it ,eventually,politically expedient to send two agents for trial in The Netherlands-it got the UN sanctions against Libya lifted.

Releasing el-Meghari on compassionate grounds would also seem to be politically expedient.Otherwise his appeal would have been heard,in Edinburgh,with,very possibly,seriously embarrassing consequences for the governments in London and Washington.Post Guantanamo,Iraq,Abu Gahreib,waterboarding etc etc, the possibility that the Appeal Court would free him was almost certainly unwanted,given the probability that the Court would,this time round, not be amenable to political pressure.It is inconceivable that the release was not approved beforehand by London and Washington, so that all the loud wailing and gnashing of teeth from various politicians would seem to be wholly artificial and worthy of an Oscar or two.

The evidence was thin,circumstantial and,whilst it fitted the original Iranian/Syrian/PFLP scenario very well,it had to be twisted,stretched,bent and turned on it's head to fit the Libyan scenario.The forensic scientists have been subsequently discredited due to the manipulation and fabrication of evidence in other cases-no serious judge in his right mind would believe them for a minute nowadays.Other prosecution witnesses turned out to be unable to give credible testimony.The judges summing up was,by all accounts,a masterpiece in the use of the conditional,the subjunctive and the indefinite: "This would seem to.......","This infers that......",
"We consider it probable that......".It's also full of contradictions.

The report of the UN observer is damning-a miscarriage of justice,politically manipulated-and makes the point that,wherever governments and intelligence services are involved,fairness,objectivity and truth are the losers.

One final point to ponder over.In the US there had been a President's Commission on Aviation Security and Terrorism,which investigated Lockerbie and reported in February 1990-10 years BEFORE the trial.After the trial,there was a meeting between the seven members of this commission and a group of British relatives in the American embassy in London.One of the relatives recalled that,after the meeting had broken up,he came into conversation with two commission members-possibly senators.One of them said to him,"Your government and our government know exactly what happened at Lockerbie...but they are not going to tell you"

Oh,and a final,final point-there were two accused.For some strange reason the judges decided that any evidence against one could not apply to the other.........even though both were accused of the same crime.In short,the verdict was a perversion of justice and a victory for the CIA.

Some of you may not like this,may prefer to keep your blinkered view of world events and cling to simple,black-white, explanations and knee-jerk reactions.Fine..............................


Lynn

Good work there Lynn...not surprised at all by collusion and deal making and the such...and maybe this guy was sort of innocent...fact does remain that he was more than likely to have been involved in other terrorist plots and thus was handled like the thug he was, even if he didn't blow up the jet himself. No way did the CIA or Downing Street pull this guy out of a hat for sacrifice..so for that reason, I have no sympathy for him.

In the big picture, it is sickening to see how we, just regular ol' people, are such pawns in the struggle for power and riches amongst the elite. To think that so few can wield so much power and influence on our everyday life is disheartening. But it also has been this way for close to forever...no simple solutions to the issues facing us today either...

Guess we just need to move on but remain vigilant always!

traci

**sighs wearily**

After all is said and done, and much heat has been exchanged, nothing has really changed except that we all hopefully agree on one thing: "The only honest politician is who, once bought, stays bought" (Attributed to Simon Cameron).

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

**sighs wearily**

After all is said and done, and much heat has been exchanged, nothing has really changed except that we all hopefully agree on one thing: "The only honest politician is who, once bought, stays bought" (Attributed to Simon Cameron).

Luv 'n hugs,

Mina

Traci,

As to how el-Megrahi was 'pulled out of the hat'..that's another murky story.Apparently,a few months before the bombing a Libyan arrived on Malta and went to the US embassy claiming to be a Libyan intelligence(JSO) Agent.......It later turned out that he did indeed work for the JSO-but only as a mechanic in the car-pool.Be that as it may,the CIA took him on and showered him with money and gifts for telling them the latest gossip from the JSO car-pool.He said nothing about Lockerbie,despite being repeatedly asked,until the CIA told him that ,if he didn't come up with some incriminating evidence about Libyan involvement with Lockerbie pdq,they'd drop him immediately and stop all payments.After a bit of bargaining he conveniently came up with a couple of names,one of which was el-Megrahi's.As a mere garage mechanic he probably only knew el-Megrahi from washing his windscreen or checking his oil...........The court found that he was a compulsive liar and rejected his evidence completely,which basically scuppered the prosecution's case.
The only other identification evidence was from the shop keeper who'd sold the clothes that had been in the case with the bomb.His initial comment about el-Megrahi was 'not tall enough,not old enough'.By that time though,two years after the bombing,he'd been shown so many pictures of possible suspects and even partially identified a couple of them that he probably really couldn't say.Added to that is the fact that,as a result of the CIA's pet liar,el-Megrahi's picture had already been so plastered across newspaper front-pages,probably accompanied by captions like 'The Lockerbie Bomber' that the shop-keeper probably half-believed it too.By the time the trial came on his 'identification' was,however, no more than vague at best and was consequently considered completely unreliable by the defence.The prosecution and the judges,however, turned veritable somersaults in accepting the shop-keepers identification of el-Megrahi.It wouldn't surprise me if they were told that there had to be at least one scapegoat when it came to announcing their verdict and passing sentence.

Governments,'Intelligence' Agencies and the independance of the judiciary-don'tcha just love it!

Lynn