When passing looses the thrill

    • 588 posts
    February 3, 2006 4:32 PM GMT
    Some process of adjustment... seems that is what the RLE is about - making us adjust to a rather traditional female role. I am, of course, trying to avoid it. Like what you're saying about finding a job, Meredith - I'm applying for a female position and if I want it I must do what I can to please the board of directors. I'm not too good at it.

  • February 2, 2006 5:59 AM GMT
    It will probably happen to all of us M2F and F2M people at a certain time point. You notice that you pass in every situation and every time, no matter what you wear or if you have make up or not. Normally passing has lost its significance or "kicks" already long before this. And possible non-passing or open situations you face with a heartbreaking smile. By the way, a nice warm smile is the best weapon against just anything.
    A few days ago I talked with a ts woman, whos greatest wish was to be able to pass automatically at any given situation. She could not imagine any bigger happiness in her life. I said, dreams stay dreams only until they come true. Once passing is an everyday routine, you have lost one dream. Reaching goals may fill you with emptiness. Yet, hopefully not.

  • February 3, 2006 9:03 AM GMT
    Being out 24/7 is one thing and passing is another. Being full time out is the prerequisite for the latter, but not a guarantee. I can imagine it is a hell to be full time and not pass.
    But just as being out 24/7 becomes a routine, so happens with passing. Before 100% passing there will be phases of 90% passing. Some people will stare at you until you learn to smile happily at them and not to care. And when you have learned not to bother, you notice that suddenly you pass in every situation. It is a self feeding process.

    • 588 posts
    February 3, 2006 10:16 AM GMT
    But surely there is some relation working the other way around ? I do not think I can pass, and so, if I dress more or less in the same casual style as most norwegian women - and that also means very conservative use of makeup - I will easily be taken for a man in many sistuations. It happened to me at the cinema a few days ago: One woman on the row in front of me referred to me as "he". Obviously I was not fullfilling the requirement stated by one headshrinker at the GID clinic: "everyone should see that you're a woman 24/7." Now, I guess, if I had been wearing a wig they would not have used that pronoun. I could also, of course, have waved an ID card at the woman and introduced myself. But no normal woman would do that.

    The thrill of passing... seems to me this somehow mirrors the suspense of hiding - in the closet. There is a "thrill" in survival, I guess, but not much real happiness. But surreal, perhaps... Reminds me of a statement by Salvador Dali: "For me, death is everywhere, at all times - it's unbelievably thrilling - I feel immensely erotic."

    • 588 posts
    February 3, 2006 10:33 AM GMT
    And Hell... it has it's circles, I guess. In my view the concept of hell and heaven mirrors the circles and squares of "society". A fitting description of the message I got over the last year: You're allowed a place on the outskirts of hell.


  • February 3, 2006 10:52 AM GMT
    Here in Scandinavia our women dress very neutrally, if not even in somewhat masculine mode. And that does really NOT help us in mixing in and passing. And at least here, if you dress in a skirt and wear earrings plus make up you might be taken for a) estonian b) russian c) hooker (sometimes combined with b) d) transvestite.

    • 588 posts
    February 3, 2006 11:18 AM GMT
    You certainly are right about that, Laura. This has crossed my mind too. Either I attract the wrong kind of attention or I'm easily perceived as a man - which is also wrong.

    I have even been thinking that the way women are here is a problem for us in some other ways too. It's well known that Norway is an extremely genderdivided society when it comes to choice of occupations. And my guess is that this somehow compensates women for their lack of feminine expression on the weekdays. So, being a woman is very much an "inner thing" here. Which makes the requirements made by the GID clinic even more offending. It's almost as if they're demanding that we contradict the ways of the women we identify with. On the other hand... I'm not so sure the rather masculine style here is altogether voluntary. After all, a woman stepping out of the drab ranks could be put in the "easy" category. And GOD forbid...

    • 588 posts
    February 3, 2006 10:30 PM GMT
    The strange thing is that my impression of ordinary people is much the same as yours, Lucy. The hell I'm being put through is caused by the "medical profession". All I really have asked for is the right to the full HRT - payed for by myself. But as things are here I cannot get full HRT - not even privately. My private - british - psychiatrist has no problem with accepting me as a woman. But he's not willing to give me a prescription for anything near a sufficient dose. It seems this is out of fear of the psychiatrists at the GID clinic.

    And the last message I had from them - just before Christmas was that it would not help that I have changed my name and am living 24/7. I would still have to wait for a year - before the RLE. They say I have too many "personal problems". And they don't seem to care that my private therapist thinks otherwise. The private TG doctor I have been seeing acts much the same.

    So, this means I'm left with living 24/7 without much hormone treatment at all - and with no idea if this will change. The mostly positive way I have been met by ordinary people does, of course, make me wonder what the hell is wrong with the doctors.

    I had a very strong confirmation of this the last two days. Yesterday I talked to the psychologist supposed to help people like me at the unemployment office. He showed great understanding and was very constructive - actually made me believe something positive could come out of this workwise. But today I met the TG doctor and was entirely put down. The same story again: My "personal problems made him/her afraid" - and so there's renewed doubt if I will get full HRT. And then, what am I supposed to say ? That no doctor trusts me ? that I have a "ten year plan of perhaps becoming a woman" ?

    If I were to put in print how I feel about the doctors supposed to help me I probably would have been arrested.

  • February 3, 2006 11:40 PM GMT

    So sorry to hear all that but can relate all to well here in the USA.. Was 1997 almost ten years ago i was doing the same, getting the same reactions.. " My other problems wher a concern to them" well my other problems where because i was not getting what i needed or even conformation of it from the doctors and psyc... after being turned away over and over and not being taken seriously, i went into deprssion, started drinking... ( was soo not "ME" ) but the more the doctors and all rejected.. the more i went into my own "escape"...... So now am an alcoholic! ( By they're terms... shakes head...Sober 7 years now ) Never had withdrawl or anything when stopped.. but it took me geting to a very low before they took me serious! ( I don't recomment this to ANYONE as it's really not a solution ) .. now... yeah years later.. on HRT, with docs approving, and on my way.. depession and all is gone except day to day stuff... And am becoming me as i see me inside and out to match.. slowly.. but on the way...
    I think persistance will always go along way.. don't step into the low i did, it didn't help much finacially or mentally, but if you really want it... it will happen! *hugs* even if takes time!


    ~Valerie xx
    • 588 posts
    February 4, 2006 12:26 AM GMT
    Thanks, Valerie, it's always encouraging to hear that we're not alone. Perhaps I should not say, but it also makes me think I'm right in wishing I could wipe these arrogant bastards off the face of the earth.

    I cannot know excactly what kind of low you were in, but I know I'm low enough as it is. And drinking... well, I may not be an alcoholic. But I did not use to drink much at all. And it has changed. Right now I'm sitting here drinking alone.

    The things these doctors has done to me... I'll never forget. And I see no excuse for their callous behaviour.

    And the hypocritical attitude... When I'm meeting I'm dressed - even somewhat overdressed for a woman my age - and they're using my female name, asking curious questions - seemingly showing a positive interest. The TG doctor even had the nerve to tell me she/he liked me while at the same time waving his stop sign like some traffic warden spottting a drunk driver...

    Well, I guess, I can't really expect them to confess their cowardly nature.
    The psychologist at the unemployment office sort of confirmed that this is where those dogs may lie buried. I said to him: Of the "sunshine transition stories" I've heard there seems to be quite many doctors... And he said, spontaneously: Well, it could be about choosing a safe career. Which is what my father and grandfather used to say: Being a doctor is a safe carreer.

    I can see that now.

    • 588 posts
    February 4, 2006 12:34 AM GMT
    I would never have thought so, but now I'm convinced that killing dreams must be a subject at some of those medical schools. I can see no other explanation for their murderous behaviour.

    • 588 posts
    February 4, 2006 12:43 AM GMT
    It seems quite obvious, by the way, that, according to Dante, a lot of doctors belongs in the eight circle of Hell - next to Satan:

    # Ditch 1: Panderers and seducers, running forever in opposite directions, whipped by demons (Canto XVIII).
    # Ditch 2: Flatterers, steeped in human excrement (Canto XVIII).
    # Ditch 3: Those who committed simony, placed head-first in holes, flames burning on the soles of their feet (Canto XIX).
    # Ditch 4: Sorcerers and false prophets, their heads put on their bodies backward, so they can only see what is behind them (Canto XX).
    # Ditch 5: Corrupt politicians (barrators), trapped in a lake of burning pitch (Cantos XXI and XXII).
    # Ditch 6: Hypocrites, made to wear brightly painted lead cloaks (Canto XXIII).
    # Ditch 7: Thieves, chased by venomous snakes and who, after being bitten by the venomous snakes, turn into snakes themselves and chase the other thieves in turn (Cantos XXIV and XXV).
    # Ditch 8: Fraudulent advisors, trapped in flames (Cantos XXVI and XXVII).
    # Ditch 9: Sowers of discord, whose bodies are ripped apart, then healed, only to be attacked again. Dante chose to include Mohammed and his son-in-law Ali here. (Cantos XXVIII and XXIX).
    # Ditch 10: Falsifiers, i.e. alchemists, counterfeiters, perjurers, and impersonators. Each group is punished by being afflicted with a different type of disease (Cantos XXIX and XXX).

    • 588 posts
    February 4, 2006 12:54 AM GMT
    Oh, the bare thought of them... ending up where they truly belong.
    I feel much better now

    • 588 posts
    February 4, 2006 1:00 PM GMT
    Hmm... it seems I was more right than I could have imagined... these doctors are indeed false prophets.

    In todays newspaper (ClassCombat) I read this article about a state employed doctor stopping a priest from blessing a room cursed by spirits of WWII prisoners worked to death.

    An old man had requested help from a state employed priest. But when this doctor heard of it he talked to the social authorities of the county and they agreed that the priest should not "encourage the illusions" of the old man.

    Now, the article was of a general nature. The journalist - a woman, of course - used, on the one hand, this sad story of an old man terrorized by a quite average state employed arrogant bastard - i.e. doctor - and on the other hand the curious fact that every "prescription" written by these arrogant bastards - doctors, that is - is marked with this curious little sign:


    Now, what is that sign, really ? The journalist - a wise woman, of course - can tell us: It is a double cross. The doctors use of this sign goes way back to the middle ages - yes, to the days of the true prophet Dante Alighieri - and the latin name for this sign is:

    In Nomine Dei

    In the Name of God

    With the help of God... but they are Godless, soulless and shameless men capable, even, of terrorizing the old and dying on their deathbed.

    So, of course, the prophet was right. They belong in hell. And one day, I'm sure, they will be wiped off the face of the earth.


    • 588 posts
    February 4, 2006 7:31 PM GMT
    And, while passing through Hell, a good thing it was for Auntie, that she had her Divine sense of Comedy.

    - Oh My God ! I can't believe it ! She's got NO strings attached !

  • April 1, 2007 10:52 PM BST
    hi Linda/Sabina

    Interesting abuse of art to put the bad doctors in hell !

    I do think you should just make your own path and follow it to the end, if necessary there are other ways of getting hormone therapy and even srs and so on. Its not preferable but cleary you r being blocked from having normal treatment for gender dysphoria, even a normal house doctor could at least try out a full hormone regime for 6 months or so see how it works out for you, at least it would handle your aggression to start on androcur

    Its sad to see people from our community so mistreated and I wish you all the best in your life

    love Tes
    • 236 posts
    November 27, 2007 3:29 PM GMT
    I think it is a personal issue as to whether the "thrill of passing" fades or disappear's.
    We can give our thoughts about such feelings or views about passing,its importance to us on an individual basis.For all of us its often our own personal experiences that can either colour our views and determine how we react to "passing " or not. Also our own psychological make up internally in our heads will dictate all the important factors about how important passing is to us.
    So bearing all the above in mind I can only speak from both personal experience and my own personal feelings about "passing" its importance or uninportance.
    I personaly think too much is made about its importance. It is not either a big issue or of major importance to me.....What Living and working full time as my true inner self has done is set me free to act and be fully myself and not worry at all what others think about me. I have nothing to hide anymore from the world outside,I have no fears of being "discovered" and all the negative actions and behaviours that can breed or instill in me.
    What does count to me more which is for me the true test of "passing" is not dependant upon my external appearance to others based on my looks. Of much more importantce and relevance is if I'am accepted as a women by other Genetic females.

    Being accepted as one of the girls counts far more highly than that of any other criteria for me. being invited for girls nights out or in,invited to go shopping,joining in the gossip and being counted as one of them is far more rewarding than any compliments I may get on my appearance or dress sense etc (though always nice to get).
    I have over the years tried to get accross to TV's who have contacted me asking about going out dressed enfemme. That the most crital and important part of "passing" is all about how you carry yourself, your body language,having confidence, head held up making eye contact not acting furtive.For me I have always felt 100% more confident being a woman than i ever did being a guy so possibly for me it was a natural state to be.

    Working where I do being in the full public glare and eye I certainly cant be a wall flower. We have over 40,000 people a day pass through our station and often I'am interacting with the public by the hundreds.Being addressed as Madam,as miss ,hearing people say lets go ask that woman certainly feels good,But more gratifying is when women ask me where did you get that nail varnish,I love your nails,to me being able to go up to another woman and comment on her great shoes or coat or outfit hair style or whatever. That gives me the real satisfaction as they react to me as one women to another and I dont fear the reaction from them as if I am one creepy guy with some ulteria motive to the approach or comments made to them.

    Like Lucy I get many people asking many questions and I am happy to answer them and hopefully educate more of the wider public and do my little bit to have a TS woman generally accepted by wider society,though I see this as a side benefit of my Job not a primary issue to or for me as I am there to do a Job but it has shown me both how far the society I live in has moved from 30 years ago.

    So I guess I am trying to say the criteria for each of us may be different as to what constitutes as "Passing". Personally I think it would be unhealthy to get hung up on having everyone see you as female from appearance alone. I see many GG women who are uglier than I or less feminine,more masculine even in apperance.How many of them get hung up on being seen as a woman? very very few I suspect.They just get on with living.

    That is my way of getting on. I get on with living my life dont care what others think or say to me behind my back etc. I know over time my facial features will change,just as long as the many women I know and yet to know carry on accepting me as one of them then that is good enough for me the rest is just superficial and relativly uniportant in the larger scheme of life.
    • 448 posts
    December 11, 2007 4:12 PM GMT
    It seems that no freedom can be found treading the path of illusion. If you lose the thrill that only freedom can bring then maybe it wasn't the dream you imagined it to be.
  • December 14, 2007 7:23 PM GMT
    The thrill of passing, fades or goes away.

    For me it has but life is just normal for me now.
    I live and work in the public eye.
    I am a checkout girl for ASDA I see maybe severl houndren or even thouusand people a week.
    So for me to be fefured to as she, miss, love, flower, pettle is just the everyday thing.

    But is that not wot us girls want, normal everyday life.

    I remeber that when i was called miss or wotever appropriate female adress i use to smile and think about it and yes it was a trill, to finally be recognise for the ladie i am.

    Butr ultimatly you stop noticing becuase it is an everyday occurance, but the former is wot builds our confidance into not expecting to be called anything else.

    Lucy x
    • 1912 posts
    December 14, 2007 8:26 PM GMT
    Makes sense to me Lucy. It is my opinion the sooner you reach the point you take the she and miss for granted, the easier transition would become. I am not out to the world but I now live pretty androgynously, the only difference being makeup and maybe shoes. Sometimes it catches me by surprise when a guy comes along side me then opens a door for me. I also find I don't watch other people nearly as much anymore to see their reaction to me. It sounds like you are doing well and I'm very happy for you.

    Wishing you the best,
  • September 27, 2009 8:21 AM BST
    So the therapist says "From now on I will expect you to live like a real woman and to dress like one as well". To which the TS girl replied."But I don't want to be rude and wear only blue jeans and tshirts".

    Just thought I would put that in here because I think that when I look at the women in the stores here I find that maybe one or two out of a thousand wear "womens" clothes anymore.
    To be honest I have dressed like a woman since I was a little boy. Tshirts and jeans.
    I prefer to pass rather then to blend in. If only blending in means not wearing womens clothes

    • 1912 posts
    September 27, 2009 9:04 PM BST
    Although jeans and t-shirts are common attire for many women, there are plenty of women wearing everything from colorful slacks, both feminine skirt and slacks suits, and appropriate skirts and dresses. During the summer most women around my area wear capris or shorts.

    A common issue I see amongst the CD/TV's as far as blending in is concerned is that they want to wear evening attire with full makeup in the middle of the day. There is no question it is rare to see a GG dressed that way during the day. As far as that goes it is rare to see a GG dressed for an evening out except on the traditional Friday and Saturday party nights.

    There will be some that say you should be able to wear what you want. Well yeah, but!!!! You are going to get those looks that drive you bonkers. I think it is too simple to say there is day and night appropriate clothing for women. Instead you need to take in account that there is work attire, after work attire, work around the house attire, work around the yard attire, evening social attire, and a list that goes on and on. So blending in does not need to include jeans and T's, but instead match the event that is taking place at the time of one's outing.

  • September 29, 2009 12:08 PM BST
    Pssst Rose
    It use to be called a "widows peak" Not male pattern baldness. You are a girl now LOL

    • 157 posts
    September 29, 2009 12:32 PM BST
    "Loosing the thrill" is something I would love to experience. I can't get past the trembling, the heart pounding so loudly that I can't hear anything else, or the shear terror, to turn the doorknob and go out. But, to those girls who can I say BRAVO! You all give courage and confidence to those of us who are still dreaming.

    Hugs Jeri
    • 1195 posts
    September 29, 2009 3:27 PM BST
    Here's a mantra for you.
    "If it isn't fun, don't do it."
    I enjoy dressing - even in grungy slacks and t-shirt - I even try limiting my makeup -wow-life is an adventure.
    • 746 posts
    September 29, 2009 9:40 PM BST
    Not to mention day time makeup vs. evening makeup, which are art forms in themselves!

    • 1083 posts
    September 29, 2009 10:03 PM BST
    Losing the thrill...

    Y'know, it's a funny thing for me. I've been wearing women's clothing and makeup in public so much that it long ago lost any "thrill" for me. I still have to be careful, but since I live as a woman most of the time, it just is something else that genetic girls do...and thus, I do. I go out, do things, and come home, and it isn't all that thrilling. It's just another part of my day.



    ... I remember that feeling, that feeling of being truly myself, in public. That rush of "Omigawd, I'm actually outside en femme and people can see me!!!" And every once in a while, I revisit that feeling inside. I'm going to post an article about a lunch I took last week; once posted I'll post a copy or link here as well.

    Luv 'n hugs,

  • January 6, 2010 11:06 AM GMT
    When I first started going out fully dressed on my own (not with GGfriends) I admit I did get an enormous thrill as well as a great sense of achievement and pride out of it. The sheer thrill has gone over the years,and my heart no longer thumps like a hammer but I love going out dressed and being accepted as female, it's wonderful. Also as I plan to live full time as a woman going out dressed in different situations is great practice.
  • January 6, 2010 11:39 PM GMT
    Funny you should say that.

    I took years to get myself out in public. Now that I have done it a few times, I find myself wanting to have something do once I leave the house. I can go to Wal-Mart or whatever and it no longer seems so exciting; I find myself trying to find some serious shopping to do in there.

    My next level of outing is to go shopping and actually interact with people. I am a bit old and a bit tall to pass so meeting folks ought to be a new experience and it makes me both nervous and excited. But, it's a next stage in the evolutionary process. Exciting is found in going forward.
    • 1912 posts
    January 7, 2010 1:25 AM GMT
    Cathy, welcome to TW. I hope you find TW a good fit and make lots of friends here. I don't like hearing too old and too tall as an excuse to not go out. I happen to be a post 50 year old, 5'11" fulltime transsexual. There was a time I worried about my height and even my age but now I feel like I can use them to my advantage. First of all I believe as you age there is less expectations for you to have perfect skin. The biggest tip I can give anyone, male or female, is to use plenty of facial moisturizer with sunblock everyday and moisturize again after you clean your face before going to bed for the night. As for height, I am amazed at how many women are taller than me, with or without heels. I happen to be slender and have long legs that work well for me. Right now I am wearing 3" heel dress boots and don't give it a thought when I'm out. It is mind over matter. As for interaction, just go about your business and your confidence will build with experience. The thing is, don't fear what others might think or say. Laugh at your mistakes and move on.
    Best wishes,
  • January 14, 2010 3:45 AM GMT
    Hi Cathy,
    I was very shy about going out, but discovered that all my fears were just in my mind.
    Now, even though I'm not full time, and may not always pass, I can go shopping, to the bank, post office, out to eat
    without any problem. Alot depends upon your attitude and approach as you are going about your business.

    My mantra - Anyone I meet will be in my life but for a few minutes at best, (unless they are a friend), so I
    don't worry about their reactions too much. Obviously I take the same precautions that ggirls would.
    i.e. no dark alleys, etc for safety.

    Hugz and enjoy your new freedom,


    • 72 posts
    January 14, 2010 2:08 PM GMT
    Mishelle i myself dont look at anyone.Just do my work.But many people here have nothing to do apart from disturbing and teasing.They can go to any extent.They are a menace and if possible should be wiped away.I personally can never compromise on self respect.As i have mentioned earlier our police and judiciary is the most insincere in the world.I dont want to have anything to do with these idiots,stupids or teasers but if necessary will have to do everything for my protection.If you keep quite it will only encourage these basta...
    • 746 posts
    January 14, 2010 5:29 PM GMT
    Just when you reach that point of feeling good about yourself regarding passing and all, reality rears it's ugly head and slaps you down! I went for a relatively lucrative job interview yesterday dressed in a modest business suit and looking very professional...the position was for an account executive at a multi billion dollar international firm based in Germany. The interview was local to me and they needed an experienced AE to handle a 3 state region which I've had much experience at...first couple of screenings were done by phone and all went well...
    When the interviewer came out to meet me, he froze in his tracks expecting to see the male version...he did invite me into his office and and it was all down hill from there....he focused more on me and transition rather than the obvious skill sets I could bring to him to help him succeed...I knew I was doomed as the interview was short and he said they would get back to me...they did today and I did not get the job...
    I guess I was naive in thinking that I could pass in the professional world or that people would accept ME, not the body...no one said it would be easy...and they are right!
    But for those of you that know me well, you'll know that I will lick my wounds, hitch up my knickers, and come back to live another day! But right now, I'm sulking and feeling not so sure of myself...
    Sorry...just had to get that out...
    • 746 posts
    January 14, 2010 9:10 PM GMT
    Thnx Melody and Rae...appreciate that very much!
    Traci xxxx
    • 2573 posts
    February 2, 2006 3:24 PM GMT
    Perhaps it is a good thing we crave, so strongly, the things we want. It motivates us to gain them, even if, having achieved them, they seem less important due to being commonplace. Otherwise, who would ever face The Transition.
    • 2463 posts
    February 2, 2006 4:32 PM GMT
    I would love to be in that situation 24/7 - going fully out. I have come to the point where any nervousness about doing certain feminine things, like shopping for clothes, has passed. I no longer care if anyone is looking at me while I browse through the skirts in the ladies' department. Nor do I care if I go buy pantyhose and the clerk clearly has a problem with it.

    Furthermore, I don't care if I'm in public and have to adjust my bra strap, or if I hunch over and my panties show over the top of my pants. Granted, that last part is something I've always looked out for merely from a standpoint of not wanting to be tacky. But, hey, sometimes it happens.
    • 2463 posts
    February 3, 2006 3:31 PM GMT
    I'm well aware of the differences between being out and passing. With the way I look at the moment I wouldn't convince anyone. But I'm not trying to deceive. I just want to be, and be thought of, as Meredith. Having spent all my life on the outside I really stopped caring a long time ago what anyone thought of me. Except job interviewers, of course! I need work!

    I get plenty of looks now when I buy something feminine. Granted, it's not the same as if I was to be in full dress. I'm sure that when I first start going out 24/7 I'll have to adjust. I know I'll have those initial fears that will need to be overcome. But I'm not going to know anything until I try.
    • 1652 posts
    February 3, 2006 9:48 PM GMT
    To me there is a difference between the definitions of “passing” and “blending in”. Personally, I think I usually blend in reasonably well, don’t attract many stares when I’m out, but when I get close enough people do read me. It’s not about voice, mannerisms, deportment etc, it’s about the shape of my face, and until I take the plunge and have surgery to disguise my male markers there’s not much I can do about that.
    However, Laura imagines that it would be “hell to be full time and not pass”; maybe I imagined that too before I tried it, but it isn’t, really, it’s fine. Yes, I would rather pass, my goal is to be accepted as a normal woman, right now I feel I’m being accepted as a transsexual, which isn’t so bad actually, and is something that many of us may have to make do with. I’m sure it has its positive points. In this day and age people aren’t shocked and disgusted to meet transsexuals (ok some of you may have not found this to be the case, I’m speaking from my own experience). I find people want to talk to me, want to learn more about it all, they want to understand, and they are glad to have that chance. In short, they are pleased to meet me, and all I can do until I reach my goal of totally passing, if I ever do, is leave them with a good impression, show them that people like me are just normal people, maybe even quite nice!
    I wouldn’t suggest that we should all take that attitude, it’s a personal thing, and to be honest I’ve surprised myself by doing all this. But if there is one thing that will help us all be better accepted by society it’s being seen in public, taking away the mystery, giving the chance for ordinary people to meet you first hand. People fear what they don’t know, what they don’t understand, or if they don’t fear it, they can only speculate as to what it’s all about. Living in stealth, passing as woman, won’t help anyone understand this any better, so I for one am proud to be able to go out and take away some of the mystery. But this is not my lifetime mission; though I see no reason for me to live in total stealth, I would like to be completely passable so I at least have that choice.
    Whether we like it or not, the situation here at the moment is that the NHS will only prescribe us hormones after we have started the RLE, even then, hormones in most cases are not going to change your face sufficiently to allow you to pass in most situations. Even if you go privately you still need to do the RLE before you can get a referral for surgery. So we are between a rock and a hard place. Basically, if we want to change our life the way we know it needs to be changed, then we have to go out there, do our best, accept that most people will see us as transsexual, and just get on with it.
    It’s not so bad though, although there may be certain issues to work through, avoiding them certainly won’t help. If you want it, do it, and be proud that you are doing it.
    • 2573 posts
    February 3, 2006 10:29 PM GMT

    Your post gives one a lot to think on. Going from hiding away, to sneaking out to going out as a TG trying to fool people as to what we are. We spent so long trying to pretend we were other than what we were. Yet, if we successfully hide as a "woman", aren't we still hiding. Won't we still be carrying that bit of fear of discovery and self-loathing because we are admitting that we have something to hide from the world. I think you are right. We should aim to "pass" but not to hide. Be the best we can but be ourselves and proud of it, or at least, not ashamed.
    • 2017 posts
    December 14, 2007 8:48 PM GMT
    Passing isn't important to me, being accepted is and I do make that distinction. It has never been thrilling for me to go anywhere dressed, it has just felt completely normal. In drab I used to be concious of having to put on an act all the time, en femme I don't have to, I can just be me. So, rather than thrilling, it has been relaxing and normalising (is that even a word, lol).

  • September 27, 2009 4:17 PM BST
    as I threw out every bit of male clothing over 4 years ago and don't ever intend to wear any shape or form of pants/trousers ever again I have to say I'm glad there are a lot of of young and older women wearing skirts around my area...
    passing is dependant on whom I'm face to facing...bigotted black woman in railway station yesterday (don't give me any crap about being racist until you read about Jamaica trying to put an end to any sex on the island except natural penis into natural vagina and 7 years in jail for anything else) reading me and putting her ugly face on and deliberatly saying 'sir' after the ticket price. this is the second time she's done it and each time I've had to let it go cos the train was due but next time I use the train I'll go early and if she sirs me again she'lll be in deep s***...but in the last week I've been shopping several times, to a conference, to hospital appointment in taxis, buses and trains and invariably get the 'miss and love' without the stare that tells me I'm passing fine...what is annoying me now is that its the windy season and I think when the hair is blow back it shows my male pattern baldness but then people don't stare so maybe that's just a bit of residual TS paranoia.
    yesterday I called in our local open air concert arean and listened to the irish folk singers for a few moments along with a mainly teens and twenties audience and as usually I was invisible as even if they glance at me the impression is old woman... LOL
    I just have to be a bit careful around groups of teenage girls cos they really do minutely examine every woman.
    • 2573 posts
    September 27, 2009 8:52 PM BST
    I went Out in public, for the first time, over three months ago. Since that time I have been trying to understand the feelings I had that day. I knew one thing was missing but could not put my finger on it. Today, after reading this thread, I understand what it was. It is wonderful how the people at TW, sharing their thoughts, feelings and experiences, over and over helps others to find their way. Thank you all for today, for me.
    • 2017 posts
    September 30, 2009 2:15 PM BST
    It's great to see this article resurface and I was considering whether things have changed for me.

    They haven't. There was never any 'thrill' to being in public at all, just a overwhelming sense of calm and good feeling knowing that this is how is was meant to be.

    • 1017 posts
    January 7, 2010 1:33 AM GMT
    Hi Cathy,

    I'm also a bit old and a bit tall to pass but I wish we were geographically closer. I'd love to go on a shopping trip with you.

    Welcome to TW,
  • January 7, 2010 4:09 PM GMT
    Just thought about this, suprising how one progresses, Losing the thrill of handwashing those delicate items, now grabbing a six pack of panties cheap and a two bra pack, just so you can throw them in the washing machine on a daily basis, getting to the ordinary stage, lol, when at the begining everything depended on the delights of choosing underwear with great care and discernment. Now dependant on loved ones buying those special occasion undies for you on birthdays and christmas.

    • 1017 posts
    January 14, 2010 6:06 PM GMT
    Hi Traci,


    But, hey, you did it as Traci which is a good thing indeed. Consider it a dry run for the next interview. The job market being what it is, just getting an interview is an achievement. Most resumes get tossed in the waste basket unread.

    Feeling your pain,
    • 734 posts
    January 14, 2010 6:56 PM GMT
    Hey Traci, don't feel bad about not getting the job. Sounds very much like the real loser here is the firm that could have benefitted from your skills! Keep going as Traci and when you get the job you want it'll be for who you really are.
    Good luck.
    Rae xx