I don't know if Pueraria Mirifica is harmless and useless or effective and maybe a little toxic.

 

I wanted to apply some, as a spray, only to my penis for some reduction in size.

 

May that work?

A few views, no replies yet. This doctor says it is not toxic, and works:  
[Link removed]
This is the spray that I want to try, which is available at more places than the one with the link and maybe cheaper, too:  
[Link removed]  
I am not spamming for anybody, I only want to know what you have for an opinion. I do not know if it is any good. Have not tried it.  
This post was edited by Lucy Diamond at July 9, 2014 12:47 AM BST

As much use as a chocolate tea pot,    I don't want to sound derisive, but, are you intending to change your gender, permantly.    Otherwise why would anyone want to reduce the size of their willy, if your just an occasional cross dresser try a cache sex. or as they are more commonly known as a gaff,   Admirers are normally thought of as men who have a liking for transexuals.   Unless your appendage is of humungus proportions most girls would be happy being on the recieving end of a decent sized willy, not some shriveled up little worm

LOL Cass - that is so true

These were my first posts here, and I felt that I was respetful of your community. I receive one reply making what is almost a joke, and another reply, speaking to that comment for two useless replies. Really.

Maybe I am in a realtionship with someone who wants me to be a little smaller, or not. I did a search, and while there are plenty of products to make a penis bigger which do not work, hormones do work for making a penis smaller, yet they also feminize and produce a female's butt and breasts. There are along with the pills, topical creams and sprays which can be applied directly to your breasts, butt and penis as you go for another gender, and one of those products is a Pueraria Mirifica spray. The pills they make are for breast enlargement and also for TG people for transformation, the cream they make is meant for healing strectch marks and breast development and a person who works for them informally who trolls other webistes told me the spray used alone would shrink my penis, yet how can I believe somebody shilling for the product? And, is it toxic or would it be, for the somewhat lesser amount I wanted to use it for?

Some say it is harmless, and does not work, some say it is toxic and may work. I don't know who to believe and I said I don't care who sells it, and I am not spamming for anybody, and I asked nicely if anybody knows and somebody makes almost a joke and somebody else comments on the joke.

I don't want to fight with anybody Is there anyone here who has some answers to my post? Please and thanks

EDIT: Fixed the paragraph breaks

This post was edited by Jim Wagner at November 12, 2011 5:34 PM GMT

I don't think Cassandra  was making fun of you or being disrespectful, she was just trying to point out that there is a lot of controvesy ove claims fer herbal remedies. perhpas not very well put,   The particular herb you mentioned,  there are basically two types, the potions, lotions, whatever are extracts from the roots,   The red root, is renowned in Thailand for enhancing male ardour and increasing penile size.    The extracts from the white root contain mock eostrogens,  and claims for their use in aiding male to female transition are highly exagerated.   It is also a fact that there are no substantiated reports for the effectiveness of this particular herb, made by any recognised authority, in fact Wikipedia, addage is well if you believe in ghosts.   Personally my opinion is a waste of money and ''as much use as a chocolate tea pot''.    You did'nt make youself very clear in your original post about why you needed to reduce your size.    I think if you are worried about a partner if your gentle and patient , you will both enjoy.

This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at November 12, 2011 6:01 PM GMT

I didn't mean to be mean to Cassandra and Carol, either. I felt is was a bad start to the thread, and maybe nobody else would reply to it.

I did read a lot about the herb having some power with breast development and didn't find a lot of websites saying that the herb was a total ripoff either so maybe somebody here may have some experience with it. An herbal mock hormone applied only to the penis may work some so I will wait for any other replies and thanks for the reply and thanks also to Cassandra and Carol for posting as they did get get the reply counter going, too

Jim, a lot of these so called herbal remedies are just pure money making machines for people (look at acai berries as an aid to weight reduction).  All it needs are a few people to conspire together through various internet postings and the development of 5 or 6 web sites and for an outlay of very little can develop an intenational business virtually overnight.  Hence Cass's remark about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

For all of these things which have not been properly scientifically evaluated, I think your rationale should be 'Caveat emptor'.

I know. That's why I was asking here

I don't want to waste $70.00 on the spray yet there is not a lot of website posting saying that the spray is a waste, so maybe it works. That spray is offered only for application to the breasts for enlargement and also written of as a way to shrink a penis, so as it is an herb and can't be patented maybe somebody here already tried it and it worked a little or a lot.

Anybody?

If it really worked, I think pharmaceutical companies would have jumped on it by now, isolated the active ingredients and synthesised them in a lab - breast enlargement is a very lucrative business and if anything like that really worked you can bet your last dollar that it would have been thoroughly investigated by the top pharmaceutical reseearch labs.

 

This post was edited by Former Member at November 12, 2011 7:38 PM GMT

Jim...the sprays are a waste...the root itself and especially the extract does have some merit...email me and I will fill you in as I do not wish to open a can of worms in here regarding merits of any herbals vs. prescribed...but I do have experience in it and can shed some light on the topic.

After giving this some further thought, is there really anyway to actually physically shrink a penis???   The only conclusion I can think of, creams, sprays whatever are only going to prevent a full erection, which in itself are going to cause further problems.   

Only way to shrink the penis that I am aware of is of course regular doses of hormones and anti-androgens...you first turn impotent, then you watch your willy wither!  (smile)  That's how it worked for me....maybe an "orchi" could expedite things, maybe?  LOL  

But Jim wants to keep his virility up while shrinking it down....tall task and still not sure I understand why.  It wil come at a price as in weak if any orgasms and such...

Traci to be honest I'm intrigued.  as to its actual size.    If he is gentle and patient, whichever way he goes, its possible to adapt to the size and have a really satisfy ing sex life.   

Mine just "gave up" after a 2 year "struggle" to hang on!  (smile)

a slice and stich operation woud remove lots of the spongium stuff that fills with blood on erection and result in asmalled but perhaps no shorter willy...problem is the 'pump' that pushed the blood in may be unprogrammable and continue to push in the same amount of blood first post-op erection and that may make for a big and messy explosion.

On second thoughts isn't alcohol the best shrinker?

I used a few herbs prior to starting hormone therapy.Though I am far from an expert and haven't tried the particular herb first questioned in this post.I found the results were mainly psychological ie:I thought changes were happening.Yet no physiological signs of change was noted.
Since taking hormones for this past 5 or 6 months I have noticed a tremendous shrinkage down there.Of course this might due to the fact that my wife and I exchanged roles and therefore stimulating erections hasn't been encouraged.
Maybe you could try abstaining from the usual male/female sex acts and try a month of only doating on your wife with soft gentle touches etc.
If it doesn't help your size reduction the side effects of a satisfied wife will be beneficial.
I'm not being funny.It's an honest suggestion.

Hi everybody, my interest is kindof the opposite of Jim's.
I'm new here. I'm a longtime crossdresser and I have always very strongly desired breasts. I have finally become comfortable enough with my wife to open up completely to her and to my relief and excitement she is good with my desire to go on hormones and develop breasts. I also want to keep my current size even if I lose some desire for frequency of sex. Are there phyto estrogens that can do the job?
Thanks for any comments and suggestions.

I second Lucy's reply...not a buffet hun...
Traci xoxo

I have no experience of the spray. In my opinion it is expensive for what it is. For it to work, and I do assume that it does! it will have to have transdermal action and thus affect you systemically not just in the local topical area. Thus you might as well buy the powder.

 

I have been taking PM R1 powder from ainterol for 5 months with Saw palmetto. I did not expect much in the way of results but I have got results. I now have breasts, small but noticeable under clothes, fat redistribution, generally i have put on 5kg, my face has changed shape, Fat to hips etc... I think my shoulders are actually dropping too... I am taking more than is recommended by ainterol and I am concerned about the long term effects. Who knows what they are... I am probably not far off permanent chemical castration. My testes have shrunk considerably, my penis is no smaller when errect however. My sex drive has decreased massively. I find myself feeling a bit more tired also. Presumably reduced testosterone. I am very happy with the results so far. When I started it was really just out of desperation whilst waiting on the GIC waiting list. I have a friend who started real hormones at about the same time as myself. Much to my amazement our progress is comparable.

 

So yes PM does work. It is a very powerful phytoeostrogen - but its not going to be selective for your penis.

Hi i am well into my herbs and alternative theapies and am a qualified holistic therapist while herbs and plants can be powerful medications unfortuntly in truth the amount needed to over ride your bodies endocrine system is vast and in 99.9% of cases toxic. I tried black coosh it did cause slight breast growth but also because i was taking it in large doses was messing my liver up, i only took it for a while (being impatient) waiting to start hormones but all it did was mess my liver up. Herbal medicine has a place and for some conditions some herbs are just as good as man made pills but the amount needed to change ones sex is so high for minimal results and have huge risks. Best thing is save your money stay off google and see a d.r the stuff they prescribe works and is alot cheaper.

Hi, I am new here. There is a forum called "Breast Nexus" with a subforum dedicated to male breast enlargement. That was where I learned about it. At that time, I thought that I was siimply a fetishist, because I was as far as I knew a repressed crossdresser with an obsession with growing breasts. PM is an exception to most phytoestrogens. It contains an abundance of miroestrol/deoxymiroestrol, which is very similar to estriol, the weakest of the 3 estrogens. Possibly this is why it has not been "jumped on" by the regulatory authorities.
It has been declared safe by the FDA with no known LD50. Weak compared to estradiol it may be but I have since grown from a male 35inch under pecs, 36 over to a 40 inch bust. This took roughly 17 months. There has been a massive decrease in libido, with a fair degree of penile shrinkage. Nocturnal erections have disappeared, and my seminal flluid is now clear.
The most important thing, though, is that my GID symptoms have gone. A long term sufferer of low-level depression and anxiety, I can now handle most of life's difficulties. I no longer feel the urge to crossdress, watch TG material, or "self abuse". According to at least one counsellor on the web, Dr Ann Vitale, these mental benefits confirm that my brain is transsexual. I have left it too late and have too many family commitments to consider transition, so I use loose clothing to hide my breast development.

Regarding safety, if you use Google Scholar you will find many papers confirming the efficacy and safety of PM, not least that it even appears to protect against breast cancer.

You are right to be sceptical, because hitherto phytohormones have had low efficacy; my personal experiences have shown me that PM is "the real deal".

It is particularly important to me, because without it, the only way I could have obtained release for my GID symtoms would have been to embark on transition, which for me is not possible or practical.

I'm happy to answer any other questions. Please note, that I am not trying to convince anyone to buy this herb, and have not mentioned any suppliers! (there are many).

This thread is so funny it could be made into a Comedy sketch! I just nearly pissed knickers reading the replies .

There is one way to do it.

SIT IN A BATH OF ICE COLD WATER FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS.

Anyway you lot have fun I wish I could stay but my time is up soon here.

Bye all and not forgetting my good friend "Little Willy".

Former member xxx

Julia Ford said:
This thread is so funny it could be made into a Comedy sketch! I just nearly pissed knickers reading the replies . There is one way to do it. SIT IN A BATH OF ICE COLD WATER FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS. Anyway you lot have fun I wish I could stay but my time is up soon here. Bye all and not forgetting my good friend "Little Willy". Former member xxx

Hmm.  Not the most helpful reply.  Aren't women supposed to have more empathy than men?

Bryony!
What kind of response do you expect? It is bloody funny have you not read the replies?.

My response is not aimed at you, the thread just caught my eye and it made me laugh.

Its ok anyway I am going to be Miss Former Member very shortly I am nearly done so you won't have to worry about my sense of humour or sense of care .

Bye bye .

Before I leave this Bryony , I will just add that you may aswell drink a litre of soya milk a day than take any kind of so called herbal hormones .It contains Phytoestrogens and it is good for you and cheap to buy. For all that anyone says about herbal hormones you would have to go and eat a large bush to get the same amount of Oestradiol as I do from just one of my prescribed pills and I take 2 a day! That means anyone would have to eat 2 large bushes per day . And don't forget the roots for dessert topped with the leaves. Yuk!!!!

Bryony,

Your praise of PM comes after immediately after you joined this site. In your message above here you claim that you went from a 35" band width to a 36" band width with a 40" measurement over your 'boobs'. As everybody here knows, a 4" difference would equate to an impressive D cup. However, in your profile you state that you are an A cup. Can you now see why people are questioning your motives behind your post.

Cristine, Shye (GS Admin) said: Crstine bites her tongue, but posts this little piece and the link. HERBAL HORMONES Many plants contain compounds that directly or indirectly affect hormones or hormone activity in the body. Since phytoestrogens (i.e., "Plant Estrogens") are far weaker than their animal counterparts, they can be used effectively to manage overabundant or deficient amounts of estrogen. The molecular structure of phytoestrogens is so similar to those in animals that they readily bind with estrogen receptors, in some cases even more readily than the actual animal steroids. Becase the plant steroids are so much less "reactive," though, they occupy the receptor while only performing some (or none) of the job. The animal estrogen is swept on in the bloodstream to either bind with some other receptor, a blood protein, or ultimately to be destroyed in the liver or excreted from the body altogehter. In this way, plant hormones can be used to "block" the direct activity of free, unbound estrogen in the body. If there is a deficiency the small amount of stimulation from the plant hormones can cause a mild estrogenic effect and in this way act as an estrogen supplement. USE IN TRANSGENDER FEMINZATION If you are a Male-to-Female transgendered person who have come to this page in search of information on over-the-counter natural/herbal hormones for the purpose of feminizing your body, you need to be aware that the effectiveness of the few herbals the DO exert estrogenic actions is extremely minimal because phytoestrogens tend to be only about 1/1000th as strong as animal estrogens. These herbal drugs may work well to help balance a biological females peri-menopausal or post-menopausal endocrine system, but they are wholly insufficient for over-riding a biological male's testosterone dominance. The amounts of herb that would have to be consumed would be dangerous if not outright toxic. While some people do report some minor effect from certain herbal formulations (such as gynecomastia or a small amount of fat redistribution) the majority of transgender people who've tried them will tell you that herbals are ineffective and a waste of money if your goal is to fully feminize your body. Only prescription-grade hormones will provide adequate feminization results (some of which are bio-identical to what your body produces - i.e., "natural") . http://gendersociety.com/[...]101620& http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/4454/herbal/view/page/1

 

Some excellent and informative comments from Lucy diamond, and rather a frightening opening post  http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/1261/warning-dangers-of-self-medicati

This post was edited by Cristine Jennifer Shye. BL at April 10, 2013 9:51 PM BST

My two cents worth and you can believe what you want, but I've been using them over three years now and I'll match my development with pretty much anyone else's in here that have used the prescribed drugs. My breasts are not bloated "moobies" but rather fully developed internally with ducts, glands, etc...waist, hips, skin, etc have changed...just so many different things. So sure, your drugs work, but so have mine...we can go on and on over and over again on this point, but those that ridicule some of the alternative programs are just seeing the world thru narrow tunnel vision. I have no financial interest in this, nor have any "stake in the game". I'm just tired of all the bashing from others that ought to be a bit more open minded.
Feel free to email me if you wish to see just what these "weeds" did for me!
Traci

Tracie xxXxx The main concern is the PM and the validated reports from established and recognised institutions, and the fact that {Pharmasutical companies hav'nt jumped on that particular bandwagon, but whatever, if you want tits, get tits, people should'nt expect to keep their willy working, lol

Crissie...there's no money to be made for a big pharma to invest in this, or even take time and R&D $$$ to research and do trials...just not a big enough market to pique their interest. The stuff I've been using uses the active ingredient if PM and a few others so that one need not ingest a barrel full of weeds to see little results. i'll stand behind my resuts and if I do not grow another inch, I'm am completely happy! Actually, what's even cooler than the physical changes has been the affects on my moods, my ability to see things "clearer", to have a much better grasp on the world around me. I am calm and aware. All male traits have vanished such as sexual urges tied to dressing, male aggression, and that awful anxiety. I am at total peace with myself and am very capable of dealing with the harsh realities of living as a m2F transexual. I owe it to the protocol I've been following.
might prescribed drugs worked better for me? Perhaps, but we'll never know...my boobs do not define me as a person nor does how I dress, etc...I have crossed the threshold from M to F and there is no looking back! I am very grateful for being able to understand and get to this point. Too many of us gave up and are no longer alive!
Anyhow, we can debate this forever...nobody is going to "give in". And I DO agree that many if not virtually all of the herbal programs are garbage, but I have been with one that is different and does work.
Ciao~
Traci xoxo

Traci, I was a pharmaceutical research chemist and believe me, this is the sort of work that we did on a very regular basis.
You say that there is not a huge market out there, well, if you take into account the TS market alone in the UK, that is some 40,000 people - if you take into account the number of natal women who undertake breast augmentation surgery each year (just in the UK) that figure becomes colossal. Most paying between £3,500 to £6000 for their ops. If they could have natural breasts without the need for surgery, most would jump at the chance.

As i have said before i believe herbs can work as well as drugs in certain conditions. But just because its a herb it does not mean its safe Liquorice is a herb and is used for a whole host of things not least as a sweet but it also is toxic and can cause liver failure in high doses (not as high as people would think). From the 2 posters above who have commented that herbs have done this and that and they feel calmer this seems like a placebo effect when i was taking herbal estrogen's i too felt that only once i started taking convectional drugs i realized all i was experiencing a placebo and MINIMAL feminization (i was going out more and drinking more booze so that could be why) i wonder what your blood work would come back showing? i still use herbs i drink herbal teas esp mint teas (as they may be a weak anti androgen and taste great) i swear by white and nettle tea for antioxidants. Also you both seem to be buying pre made concoctions at god knows how much if you really think they work why not just buy the active ingredient herbs and take those it should display the herbs and strengths. My prescription hormones which work (and my bloods are monitored) on a private script from my dr cost less incl consultation costs less than herbs do. Also sorry i agree with carol broyony your prof and posts dont add up all you state is the chest size has grown thats completely different from cup and breast size i used to have a 44inch chest now i have a 32 and now a b cup my 44inch chest was bigger but had no cup. Also if the herb is working so well has your wife or workmates noticed? if my hb suddenly grew hips and breasts id be worried? herbs are great but dont mess with your helth just see a dr and save a fortune on internet and the net is awash with "drs and counsellers" whom are as much a d.r as i am a ordained minister (and i am i brought it off the internet for a laugh).x

This post was edited by Former Member at April 11, 2013 2:38 PM BST

Carol, the difference here though is that we're speaking about m2Fs who wish to reduce/eliminate T while adding E to their endocrine system, not natal women who wish larger breasts. I guess I was meaning that there is not enough m2Fs in any given market for BIG pharmas to care when they could devote their R&D monies to making us all tranquilized and "healthy"..LOL No biggie...I've spoken enough on this and do not wish to create a flame war between the prescribed hormones set and the herbal set. True, MOST herbal offerings a pure garbage, a waste of time, energy, and money. The results are minimal at best...I'm using a company who is different than the rest and has a 20+ year track record of success. I have met other people who use them, met their owner, and spoken with medical types about the POSSIBILITY of them working. They worked very well for me...enough said...I'm more than happy to provide pictures to those who might be interested in seeing just what they did for me...but I will not post them in here nor do I really wish to continue the "debate". I respect you and all of the other women who have gone your route and chosen your path to reach your goals and am extremely happy for each and every one of you. Please do understand I am just like you and have gotten the exact same results...
See ya in chat!
Love,
Traci xoxox

traci if indeed the herbs have worked for all well and good but the problem with them is they are untested and i guess your bloods are not mointered accordingly because of that and your self medicating most d.rs have never heard of alot of herbs so are unaware of the damage/side effects they can do. the concoction your on may produce results but whats the long term damage it could poss be causing? i am all for herbal medicine but only as a compliment for medications if you had cancer would you go for herbs or a proven drug? the problem with bigging up herbs without mentioning what herbs you are using or what supplier, gives people the perception that all feminization herbal pills work and are safe 99.9% dont or will only work in certain individuals. People see this and think ummm i dont wana go the full hog but want a bit of a bust take some pills and mess up their bodies. Herbs are strong and have side effects some are toxic but in small doses ok (and as generally untested the lethal dose is not known). The only people (due to the cost of them) who would consider them are those not confident in getting medical help or who dont want to truly transition if thats the case whats the point? theirs plenty of things you can do to look more fem without herbs or drugs certain exercises losing weight and muscle skin creams and essential oils to soften skin and tone. Some people reading this may think ok if i take herbs i can become more physically fem but not that fem. and end up taking something that ends up killing them. if you want to use herbs to g.r.s visit a qualified homeopathic d.r or herbalist who can access your g.p and keep a eye on your blood and health not google or im sorry some quack internet company who only want to make money, in my job i am lovely to people i cant stand as its business. I Should also add i aknowledge that a lot of big pharmas ignore herbs as theirs no money in it but that also means these herbs have not been tested for side effects, 50 years ago d.rs told people too smoke until after research it was found ciggies kill so all herbs should be treated with caution and where poss if used extracted from the whole plant and prepared by the user.x

Hi Tracy and Others

 

Open minded is just where I like to sit.

 

The jury is certainly in on pharmaceuticals, so much so that different medications are regularly added and withdrawn from professional recommendations. As far as the results of feminisation go we have to be fair and say that the studies are ongoing and while they are encouraging there is no one guaranteed prescription or drug regimen. Even my endocrinologist was recommending medications based on a consensus from his collegues.

 

So what about alternative medicines or the so called herbals? This industry has massive a turnover. They could easily afford the R & D that pharmaceutical companies invest in. It is only a matter of one company extracting an active compound, developing ways of amplifying its effects, completing clinical trials and marketing it. Once the huge profits start coming in, other companies will follow suite. It is just a matter of time I would have thought.

 

In terms of the consumer, isn't it a question of faith. We know a diet high in phytoestrogens, such as some Asain diets, have a feminising effect. If the consumer believes their medications are the best then who has the right to deny them that privelege?

 

To me, the cost differential is paramount, not only are prescription medications more economical, but there is a further cost saving in DIY.

NB: I do have medical training and I am also under the medical supervision of an endocrinologist.  

 

Regards

CB

This post was edited by Former Member at April 12, 2013 11:58 AM BST

Bryony Willis said:
Regarding safety, if you use Google Scholar you will find many papers confirming the efficacy and safety of PM, not least that it even appears to protect against breast cancer.

Google Scholar! Why have I not heard of this before?

 

If you want a real herbal that will knock your socks off, then get yourself down to the local herbalists and buy some Wild Yam Extract.

 

Regards

CB

 

 

 

Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Bryony, Your praise of PM comes after immediately after you joined this site. In your message above here you claim that you went from a 35" band width to a 36" band width with a 40" measurement over your 'boobs'. As everybody here knows, a 4" difference would equate to an impressive D cup. However, in your profile you state that you are an A cup. Can you now see why people are questioning your motives behind your post.

Hello Carol,

 

the timing is simple: I came across this subject on this board, and wanted to contribute for which I had to join!  I think there is some measurement confusion here....  my understanding is that if you add 4" / 5" to the underbust (5 if it is odd) then my 35" +5 gives a bra size of 40".  My measurements around my nipples are 39.5 - 40" depending on when I measure them, and that is the same as the bra size, hence an A cup. 

 

I can't see what motives I would have not to tell the truth.  If you join the Breast Nexus forum and look at member Bryony, you will see that I have been contributing about a year and a half.  The forum called Breast Growth for Biological Males has a members' photos sub forum and you can see for yourself that I am not alone in using PM to achieve substantial growth (there are pictures of my development there too).

 

If you Google for 'mirifica FDA' then on the fda.gov website you will find a document called "Description-of-Pueraria-Mirifica - Food and Drug Administration"  which contains a lot of safety information and a passage containing "VI.  Estrogenic  and  Estrogen  Antagonistic  Phytoestrogen  Isoflavones of  P.  mirifica  Root  Extract " which contains details or the estrogenic properties.

 

Can I also urge you to use Google Scholar to search for terms including 'mirifica' and 'hrt'?

 

In particular the result "Down regulation of gene related sex hormone synthesis pathway in mouse testes by miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol"

 

The abstact concludes with " These observations supported that miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol could exhibit the same effect as estradiol regarding regulation of testicular gene related sex hormone synthesis pathway."

 

There are many more confirming the efficacy of PM as an herbal HRT.

 

These are peer-reivewed scientific papers, so if you are suspicious of me, and you are entitled to be, why not peruse them?

 

Best regards,

 

Bryony

Band size is measurement just under the bust, cup size is (measurement over the bust less band size) - you stated in your profile that you are an A cup not a D cup, that is what piqued my suspicion.

Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Band size is measurement just under the bust, cup size is (measurement over the bust less band size) - you stated in your profile that you are an A cup not a D cup, that is what piqued my suspicion.

Hi Carol,

 

well, I'm confused.  As I don't actually wear a bra, I went to a web page to find out how to give my size.

 

If you look here: http://brastraps.com/brafit.htm , the instructions indicate that I am an A cup. 

 

i.e., band size = 35+5 = 40

Bra size = measurement around bust = 40

Cup size = A if bra size - band size = 1 or less.  What method do you use to get a D cup then?

 

Has the idea of adding 4 or 5 to the underbust measurement gone away with some manufacturers? Only I've found the method I used on several pages.

 

Best regards,

 

Bryony

 

 

http://www.herroom.com/bra-fitting-advice,901,30.html
If you are a D or a DD cup as your measurements would suggest, then you really do need to be wearing a bra.

Chalice Brendale said:

Hi Tracy and Others

 

Open minded is just where I like to sit.

 

The jury is certainly in on pharmaceuticals, so much so that different medications are regularly added and withdrawn from professional recommendations. As far as the results of feminisation go we have to be fair and say that the studies are ongoing and while they are encouraging there is no one guaranteed prescription or drug regimen. Even my endocrinologist was recommending medications based on a consensus from his collegues.

 

So what about alternative medicines or the so called herbals? This industry has massive a turnover. They could easily afford the R & D that pharmaceutical companies invest in. It is only a matter of one company extracting an active compound, developing ways of amplifying its effects, completing clinical trials and marketing it. Once the huge profits start coming in, other companies will follow suite. It is just a matter of time I would have thought.

 

In terms of the consumer, isn't it a question of faith. We know a diet high in phytoestrogens, such as some Asain diets, have a feminising effect. If the consumer believes their medications are the best then who has the right to deny them that privelege?

 

To me, the cost differential is paramount, not only are prescription medications more economical, but there is a further cost saving in DIY.

NB: I do have medical training and I am also under the medical supervision of an endocrinologist.  

 

Regards

CB

Hi,

 

I hope by now some of you have had a chance to look at the clinical paper references I put up.  The big difference with herbal over pharm is that (a) food supplements are relatively safe enough to use without medical help.  (b) to get pharm hormones, I would have to go the full gender counselling route, and possibly be put on a path to transition (c) some people in my circumstances (including me) do not feel able to go that route; we've got to late middle age with a wife and grown up kids; apart from taking their husband/father away, there aren't enough years left to develop the unconscious mannerisms to appear other than an aging man trying and failing to present as a woman.

 

The thing is, I've got this far before the GID got too much for me; I have no idea how few years I have left (I'm now 60). if I'd understood sooner what my situation was, I would maybe have made different life choices, but I have too much investment in loved ones now.   I'd rather spend my remaining years dealing with my situation and get involved in other activities.    

 

What I needed, and found, was something that would relieve the very real mental anguish of GID.  

 

 I still have the intense, poignant yearning that I always do when I see someone who I would particularly like to be, but it's more like a headache, or toothache that you have treated with a painkiller like Tylenol.... you know it is there, but you can deal with it.  Most importantly, I have lost the depression and anxiety that were becoming too much to deal with.

 

I know that this might sound too good to be true, but check out this clinical paper:

"Efficacy comparison of Pueraria mirifica (PM) against conjugated equine estrogen (CEE) with/without medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) in the treatment of climacteric symptoms in perimenopausal women: phase III study."  at http://imsear.hellis.org/handle/123456789/41330

 

"CONCLUSION: PM, containing phytoestrogens, has estrogenic effect as similar as CEE, and can alleviate the climacteric symptoms in perimenopausal women"

 

And there are many other such papers that can be found through Google Scholar.

 

Bryony

Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
http://www.herroom.com/bra-fitting-advice,901,30.html If you are a D or a DD cup as your measurements would suggest, then you really do need to be wearing a bra.

Ah, as I thought, it looks like there are two systems, one adding 4/5" and the other not.

 

Hmm.  They don't feel like Ds.  I'm guessing that because bras are intended for the very different dimensions of the female rib cage and musculature, the cup size system doesn't really work.  Despite the measurements I told you being accurate, they almost fit in my cupped hands.  Trouble is, a bra would be a bit obvious with family,friends, work.  I tend to wear a tight undershirt most of the time.

 

B.

Carol Uren (Site Moderator) said:
Bryony, Your praise of PM comes after immediately after you joined this site. In your message above here you claim that you went from a 35" band width to a 36" band width with a 40" measurement over your 'boobs'. As everybody here knows, a 4" difference would equate to an impressive D cup. However, in your profile you state that you are an A cup. Can you now see why people are questioning your motives behind your post.

Carol,

 

just to let you know, I have edited my profile to state measurements instead of cup size, due to the confusion caused by the two methods in general use.

 

B.

Hmmm... I didnt really want to bump into someoen elses argument but the title of the OP brought me here. And I would like to hear some advice; As I am experiencing breast growth and penile shrinkage. Friends have commented on the former, due to the fact I cant hide them (wont fit in a C anymore, not quite fill a D). The latter is a little more personal... but yeah its shrinking significantly when flacid, but erect it has only lost maybe an inch (2cm).

 

I was wondering how long after being on hormeones, going by the experience of the other members, I should be expecting this growth/reduction?

Portia, hiya, depends on  the hormone regime your on,   I doubt the physical size when erect will shrink that much,   as you progress, it will be harder to obtain a full erection.   size will probably not be affected in the early stages, it will just be large and limp.   also depends on your own physical circumstances/make up.   everyone is different.   But i hope your on a regulated and monitored regime for safety reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueraria_mirifica

 

Some cosmetic products and herbal supplements claim various health benefits of the extracts of Pueraria mirifica including increasing appetite, enlarging breasts,^[3] improving hair growth, and other rejuvenating effects; however, there is no scientific evidence to support any these claims.^[4] The U.S. Federal Trade Commission has taken action against manufacturers who make such fraudulent claims.

 

 

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2002/12/vdicmp.pdf

No supper tonight then?

Bryony is not a pretender.  Pueraria mirifica, although weaker than pharmaceutical hormones, can help men develop breast tissue, and given time, a significant amount.  After several months, many men develop buds which over time grow and soften.