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DH is going through gender confusion

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    • 71 posts
    August 12, 2014 7:21 PM BST
    I'm 23, my dh is 29 on the 22nd and we will be married 4 years on the 14th. In December I found him in a thong in the shower, he kept this from me and had stopped having's a long story to get there, anywho I embraced it as a panty fetish which he believed was what it was.

    Then he tried on my clothes and enjoyed that as well. We looked into it and he originally felt that transvestite fit him (we didn't really look past sexual fetishes)

    We embraced that as well but he is moving past it being sexual only. He says he feels right in women's clothing. He bought a wig and breast forms and wants me to do his make up as well. It's not longer just arousing, he feels right and now refers to himself when dressed up as Elizabeth.

    Now he isn't confused because he does still want to be a man at times but also wants to be Elizabeth openly and freely as well. He is talking about breast implants and I understand that he may be bigender but because we have 2 small children (will be 1 and 2 next month) he needs to choose which side pulls more toward. Either a female in daily life and man in private or vice versa.

    That's where his confusion is. He feels that he doesn't know who he is anymore and where he stands. I know this will take time and I'm trying to be as supportive as I can and helping him research and find answers but idk what else I can do? Has anyone gone through this? Is he really just a transvestite anyways or is there some amount of gender identity truly happening?

    Thank you so much for any a dive and help
    • 71 posts
    August 12, 2014 7:22 PM BST
    * he is confused.
    • 17 posts
    August 12, 2014 8:28 PM BST

    I cannot tell you if he is  just transvetite or has more gender identity resolutions needing to be amended, but I can tell you a little of my personal story. Like most *transgender-ladies,  ( I am m2f)  I very early felt I was in the wrong body. Now I am trying to get on Hormones, etc. For me it took accepting myself, which took a little while. I think everyone in every walk of life needs to know whom why are in a kind, confident, yet gentle way.

    • 71 posts
    August 12, 2014 9:04 PM BST
    Marissa Mallo said:

    In all this, you haven't  talked about what you are feeling about finding all this out about the person you love. How are you doing?

    I am feeling ok at the moment. I know 100% that I am by his(or her? I'm not quite sure what to say) side no matter where this takes us. Even if that means my husband becomes my wife. But it is huge and new so I do have pangs of sadness about seeing him dressed as a woman. It's only for a moment. But it's also new to me so it hasn't been normalized for us yet.
  • August 12, 2014 9:05 PM BST
    It is good that you haven't gone and bolted out the door.Kudos young Lady, your youth is instilled with commitment and a need for understanding. Aside from the obvious, some counselling, an open line of communication, and your willingness to work together in this. It is important for Elizabeth to really be not only honest with the WHOLE picture with you but also herself. You both need to set ground rules of what is acceptable or not and also make important decisions together for the best of EVERYONE right down to the children. Good luck with all that is on the road you travel. The path that led you here is obviously due to your need to get support and to get a grasp on the VAST umbrella that makes each and everyone a little different from the next when it goes past the actual act and need to dress.
    • 71 posts
    August 12, 2014 9:07 PM BST
    I'm currently looking to find some affordable counseling (we are low income) and obviously a councilor that knows gender identity. From what I have read, for adults realizing it, that it does tend to come from the transvestic fetish because they think it's just sexual but once he embraced that it very quickly moved from sexual to bringing up gender feelings. And it seems, although slowly, the more he opens up and accepts it, the more towards a woman he leans.
    • 2248 posts
    August 12, 2014 9:22 PM BST

    Firstly Miranda, I must admit, posts like yours suprise me, no mention of an initial feeling of disgust, dissapointment and betrayal.   your a very cool and collected person.


    It's a lot to take in,   The members of our little world are as diverse and varied as you can get, from the fetish aspect, to the genetically induced aspect of gender dysphoria and being born with an inherant physical appearance. ''Intersex''


    Cross dressing does not automatically mean a person is ''trangendered'' ''transexual'' confused is generally the initial stage.    Examples of none fetish behavour, would be someone who is stressed, post stress disorders spring to mind, say an ex soldier, who has experienced some horrific experience, dresses as an extreme  form  of escapism, literally sheds the male self and becomes the opposite gender for short periods.


    It is essential that a proper diagnosis is obtained, see a gender councellor.   He has to get this right for your sake and the sake of the children.   There is still uneducated bigoted people out there, life may become very difficult, family and friends might not be so understanding.   It won't just be him that is subject to ridicule and scurilous remarks, you will be as well for putting up with his behavour and allowing him to do it.   Children can be very cruel as well to their peers as they grow up.


    Forget breast implants, if he is cross gender and sometimes wants to revert to a male role, they cannot be unzipped and hidden away.


    If he is of a definate mind to transition full time, thats something different, and even then one does not imediately go out and get breast implants, being put on a regime of HRT.


    Apart from a general  gender confusion condition there are scientific physical and genetic abherations, mutations that can cause Gender Identity disorders, 'GID'



    Ask all the questions you need to, support is here, for families and those affected, glad you joined.



  • August 12, 2014 9:34 PM BST
    Right on Christine, I could have been typing till tomorrow trying to articulate what you did in not so many words.

    Miranda, you need to ask alot of questions and need to clarify where things are going to go from here. A diagnosis from a professional will at least be a good way for you to move past alot of hypothetical that might be going on in your head, but it will also provide you BOTH with a real.starting point of where EVERYONE is going from that point on.
    • 71 posts
    August 12, 2014 11:33 PM BST
    When I first found him in a thong there was a feeling of betrayal because I felt like I had failed him as a wife to make him feel that he couldn't share that part if himself with me. And there was a lot of different events the last 4 years leading up to this that was hard and ugly so now that it's finally out and he's being 100% transparent instead of lies and secrecy I'm more relieved than anything. I have no disgusts for it, it's part if him and I love him. I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to call him in general. Right now he's Elizabeth when dressed.

    I will definitely get on the ball of making a therapist appointment. It's hard for me to only be able to be there for him when I can't imagine just how hard this must be for him. He also wants to talk to others, I can't remember if I already said this, so I might have him hop on with my acct and make his own post.

    I appreciate all the answers :) thank you so much for the advice so far! And if I refer to anything wrong please correct me, I'm really new to this and don't want to offend unintentionally.
    • 71 posts
    August 12, 2014 11:39 PM BST
    He also knows that if he does decide it transition it will take years and HRT as well. And that it's not something he can do if he does realize he only enjoys to crossdress.
  • August 13, 2014 12:29 AM BST

    Miranda I personally think you are an amazing woman. Never ever think you have failed him/she . Crissie has pointed out very well it is a disorder , it is not your disorder but it is affecting you and is impacting on your life. You never thought you were going to marry a woman did you? If you had known would you still have married him (him at the time) Did you ever think you would have 2 beautiful children by a man to later become a woman?. You never signed up for this did you?.


    Have you noticed the question marks I have used in a few lines? . You are full of questions and you need answers , you have come to the right place. I called you amazing! You are handling this very well. In an ideal world he should have been honest with you from the start , would you have still married him if you had known? . You do both need some professional help , it seems from what I have read he wants to be she more everyday that passes. You have to think ahead of what may happen , it is not going to go away and he did know before he married you. He/she is still the same person on the inside it is the changes on the outside that are or will be hard.


    Now can I ask you a question please? You do not have to answer it. You are a woman , did you not notice anything different? Sorry this will be more than one question . Being a woman you know if you are talking to a male don't you? and being a woman you know if you are talking to female , were there no clues?. The only reason I am asking that is because that is who you fell in love with.


    A gender psychologist will figure it out for him/her. There is a lot you can or may have allready figured out for yourself . Being a woman as you know is not just about the clothes you wear , being a woman comes from within. I am no specialist but I have come accross many men who think they are female , I know the difference. There have been many come here saying they are transexual , just reading a few posts by them I can clearly see they are not. Being transexual is not a badge of honour as some here seem to think.


    I hope things go well for you both and never forgetting your children.


    Again you are amazing , take care .


    Julia xx

    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 1:54 AM BST
    There's one this he has said that's maybe me question if he's actually transexual or just bigender or maybe just still a fetish.

    Says he wants to be a woman and take on his woman "persona" but when it comes to his body he wants to keep his penis. He said since he's still sexually attracted to me it wouldn't make sense to change it? I was thinking maybe he's bigender and although the "manly" part of his is still there, it may be less than the woman part but that's why he still wants his penis? I'm not sure...
    • 155 posts
    August 13, 2014 1:56 AM BST
    Hi Miranda, there sure have been some fantastic replies to your post....Julia asked some brilliant questions and Christine's post was equally brilliant. I hope you don't mind me asking you this because what is said in G.S. stays in G.S. You said that if you husband transitions you would then have a wife. Be sure to realise that you would then to all intents and purposes be living with a woman in every sense but the original birth gender. So, I feel that I MUST ask you this as you seem like a woman in a you are prepared to accept whatever decision you husband (at the moment) makes and stand beside regardless, Were you ever bi/curious in your own life at any time? The reason I ask is that you can love someone so much that it can become "blind love" in so much as you will want to hold on to them no matter what they put you through or whoever they become, and, if this is the case then over the years you may become resentful of this. However, if you have ever harboured bi thoughts then it may not be as difficult for you to accept this, after all there are MANY loving female couples bringing up children these days! Good luck to you and your "partner" in the times ahead and keep us posted! Like Marissa says you are indeed "one in a million!" xoxoxo
    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 2:01 AM BST
    To the questions above: I want to think if he was out before we were married, that I would have stayed, but idk. I more committed to him now than even then. But I know if it was just a fetish then, I would have still stayed.

    In terms of picking up on it before...somewhat. He seems to be very in tune with women and feminine nature. He's not outwardly feminine before. Not "metro" didn't have feminine mannerisms. Just his personality and understanding seemed more than most men. I found a few things that pointed to either being a crossdresser or having a fetish for them. Always ladyboys? (Sorry I'm not sure of the right terms for that) and crossdressers. There was porn found and that was why we hardly had sex for 3 years, he chose it over me, which was hard on my self esteem (this was before I knew about the fetish).

    Saying this also makes me wonder if that's why he wants boobs only? He finds those in transition to be beautiful. Is there something like that genderly to want to "be both" like that?
    • 155 posts
    August 13, 2014 2:10 AM BST
    Hi again Miranda, maybe he just wants boobs only because he is afraid of losing you if he lost his penis....or he knows through research that not all surgeries are a complete success and may be worried about this also. There are many, many pre-op transsexuals that are perfectly happy in their lives and have no desire to take things further, but, I stress that it would have to work for BOTH of you! From your post so far it does seem like you are the one doing most of the giving! xoxoxo
    This post was edited by Linda T at August 13, 2014 5:00 AM BST
    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 2:47 AM BST
    I was bi curious when younger and did experiment. I find women to be beautiful and I love breasts but when I did have sex that completely answered my curiosity. It wasn't for me, I like penises. Now that's not to say that if dh did choose to go all the way that I couldn't get into it if we included a strap on occasionally. But he does seem pretty adamant, even with my being ok with it, that he wants to keep his penis.
    • 155 posts
    August 13, 2014 2:53 AM BST
    I do know that if MY wife would be okay with it that I would have no hesitation in losing my penis tomorrow.
    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 3:37 AM BST
    Hello everyone this is Miranda's husband I want to thank everyone of you for the support you have offered her through this if you have any questions for me please ask
    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 4:16 AM BST
    Thank you so much. So out of the this my wife has shared do you have any incite for me? I don't really know what to say or how to start my coming out seeing how you all know the situation. Lol
  • M G
    • 373 posts
    August 13, 2014 5:02 AM BST
    May I suggest that Elizabeth open her own account? It can be done for free of course, and would certainly be much less likely to lead to confusion...
    Great post too btw.
    : )
    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 5:10 AM BST
    This is Miranda again. He is making his own account now :) good idea! Idk why I didn't think of that
    • 17 posts
    August 13, 2014 5:37 AM BST
    Because you told me to just use your phone lol. Anyway hello everyone. This is Elizabeth.
    • 1 posts
    August 13, 2014 8:17 AM BST

    Hi Elizabeth - Other options for what's going on that others have not expressed (that I've seen): gender queer (GQ) and gender fluid (GF).  I've also seen GF translated as gender f**ked as, obvously, you bounce back and forth and it doesn't always feel sane.


    Things that helped me was being specific to set date nights as Samuel, and taking on new activities as Samuel.  I found that blurring the lines between my female self and male self just added to the confusion.  In a while it may begin to feel imperitive that you merge both the male and female aspects together and chose a side.  Right now, though, you're still exploring what's important to you as female versus what's important to you as male.


    I have a female body.  Before puberty I wanted to be a mother.  After puberty the whole idea left me numb and feeling cold.  After I realized I had this side of me that wasn't female and started spending time deliberatly as that side I revisitied the idea of partenthood.  Motherhood left me feeling cold.  I couldn't connect to it.  Fatherhood . . . I'd make a damn good father.  Exploring that Idea helped quite a bit.  BUT it's not an idea I can currently act on.  So I've had to set it aside for a while.


    It may also help to reduce stress if you take the approach of on-table/off-table.  That is something small and important to be explored for a set time, but other things are off table while your focus is on that small important thing/aspect.  If you try this method you'll find it gets easier to work with and that by focusing on just the one thing - instead of trying to gulp it all down at one time - makes it easier to define and take on the aspects of Elizabeth that matter most.  


    Just some suggestions.  I hope things are going well for you.


  • August 13, 2014 9:27 AM BST

    Hi Miranda.

    I cannot advise you on how to handle your situation , no person here can please remember that. You will get support here and others experiences. Any changes you make in your live's have to be between you and your husband and your decisions , we are strangers to you and not qualified to advise you.


    I just wish to clear a few things up that "may" help. Ladyboy? The clue is in the name Lady-Boy (two genders) 99% of Ladyboys do not have gender identity issues , they do it for the money.


    Your income! You did say you are a low income family and there is no shame in that but , breast implants are very expensive , it is also hard to hide them. There may come a time when your husband wants them to be removed because of any problems they cause your husband , again very expensive. A gender psychologist will cost less and give you your answers before any mistakes are made. Your husband taking any HRT in the future could render his penis useless so think about that and talk to him about it. If he wants to keep it he obviously wants it to work and you would too I presume? It would mean no more children.

    I am really short of time right now so I cannot go into things to much but I will be back later . I have been searching for reasons to log in here lately and you have given me one so thank you.

    Please ask your husband one question for me , a simple yes or no please . Ask your husband if he is gay , you can respond here or PM me.


    Take care and I will read through this more later when I get a break.


    Julia xx

    • 34 posts
    August 13, 2014 10:22 AM BST

    Hi Maranda

    Welcome to GS Elizabeth is a very lucky girl having you on her side, I to am married wife knows about me but she never talks to mae about things I'd like to talk to her about, I never sure how to start the conversation fearing another argument.

    • 155 posts
    August 13, 2014 1:43 PM BST
    Hi Miranda, just to say I'm so glad that your husband has joined also :) Also just to say, I and I imagine the vast majority of our members don't struggle to find a reason to "sign in" as there is just soo much here. I sign in for different reasons most days, sometimes just to see who's posting what, sometimes to post a new topic myself that's been on my mind, sometimes to pm a girlfriend about something personal that I may only want her to see or just to catch up for a girly chat! Other times just to escape from the "real world" because here I know I won't, for the most part be judged or vilified for who I am. Any advice given or comments made to posts I have started or participated in is always honest, from the heart, and with my best interests in may not always be correct but that's why they are opinions, but for sure they are always sent from the heart! I sometimes think the "S" in G.S. could stand for Sanctuary! But then again, maybe not as it does conjure up a picture of a lot of TV/TS people wandering around a fenced in field somewhere in the beautiful countryside! So you see Miranda, there are many, many reasons to be an active member along with your husband! Of course NONE of this would be possible without the huge amount of hours and effort our wonderful G.S. Admin team put in to keep our site fluid and active! So we look forward to seeing how you get on in the situation you currently both find yourselves in, and I'm sure you will find our site and members a great comfort, bye for now xoxoxo
    This post was edited by Linda T at August 13, 2014 6:35 PM BST
    • 2248 posts
    August 13, 2014 2:49 PM BST

    I cannot quote or give advice from my personal experiences, never been in Elizabeth's situation.    I can only speak from what I have learned over the years, from others.   The fixation with having breasts and keeping ones appendage,   Now this I can relate to, my GF is a pre-op and had breast implants, perhaps one day she will get around to going the whole way, but she does not want to be a man sometimes and a woman at others.   but she does take the dominant role during our sexual encounters.   just goes to show how diverse and different each of us are.


    What does worry me in your circumstances is the effect of on off gender changes upon the children.   daddy's a mommy in the morning and daddy in the afternoon,   Taking this to an extreme, Elizabeth takes the kids to school and later picks them up as a man.

    • 17 posts
    August 13, 2014 3:28 PM BST
    Good morning everyone. It is hard to choose one indefinitely. inside I am a woman but I have work in construction and I have to think about my lively hood and being able to support my family. and to Julia I am not gay I love my wife very very much
    • 2248 posts
    August 13, 2014 4:05 PM BST

    I don't see 'Gay' coming into it, if perchance you are a woman, if you fancied men, logically that would make you a hetero female. my GF presents as a female, logically that makes me a lesbian, but I enjoy what I get. being in love is the deciding factor, thats my opinion.

    • 17 posts
    August 13, 2014 4:11 PM BST
    Lol someone asked my wife to ask me if I am gay. And me being a man right now I am not gay and yes I 100% agree with you if or when I transition I will logicly be gay because I will always be with my wife
  • August 13, 2014 4:56 PM BST

    Hi Anthony.

    Yes someone did ask your wife if you are gay , it was me. Reason? If you do see a gender psychologist that question may be asked . Crissie has virtually given the answer . The definition of a gay person is: Sexually attracted to someone of the same sex/gender. Whether or not you have transitioned does not really come into it. If you feel inside that you are a woman then the answer would be yes lesbian. Complicated isn't it? I was in a relationship with another woman for 23 years and always considered it to be a gay relationship even though at the time I was living most of my life as a male. I have always known I was not a male but just like you had for others sakes had to pretend , my partner was aware from the start of my gender.

    That is the only reason I brought the word Gay into this. So back to topic.


    You do have two beautiful children! My fisrt part in this topic I ended with "And never forgeting your two children" . I am very sure both of you love each other very much and you would die to protect your children. There is no need to die for them (I hope) but this will affect them at some point.

    You and Miranda have a lot to think about , your love for each other will see you through this. At some point you mentioned coming out if I recall (you did I just looked back) You asked for some insight? You need foresight too. Coming out is a big thing to some , you will not have to convince yourself who you are it will be everyone you come into contact with. When I came out I did not have to convince anyone I was me it came natural .


    I do truly wish you all the best and that includes your loving family too. You have an amazing wife just as I did before my partner passed away. Sometimes in life you have to make sacrifices , I have made many. Love is beautiful thing , cherish it , cherish Miranda and your children. Keep working together on this and one day it will hopefully all fall into place and have the one thing I wish for you all "A happy ending".


    Take care , Julia .

    • 17 posts
    August 13, 2014 5:10 PM BST
    Thank you Julia that was beautiful. And up lifting.
  • August 13, 2014 6:21 PM BST

    There is no need to thank me Anthony , it is not that beautiful. It came from a woman. Yes I was born in a male body but I have pieces of paper to prove I am female. That is the crazy part in all of this , a genetic female does not have to prove who she is. I have genetic female friends who envy me , they envy my figure and my hair ect. At times I have to correct them , it is me that envy's them. They have the body I was denied at birth , but I made it.


    At the start of this I stated Miranda gave me a reason to log in here! I do hover my cursor over the delete my account fairly often , if I make it untill January it will be a miracle , it will be a whole year. I have been a member on and off here for 8 maybe 9 years.

    It is topics like this that make things worth while here , yes I have my friends here and their contact details but it is not the same as being here.

    Being able to help others in any way however small is important to me , it is part of my life. I could tell you something about yesterday that I done and made someone very happy but it would be way off topic here , she thinks it made her feel good but my final words to her gave me a wonderful feeling inside.

    If I ever do vanish from here Crissie will always be here for you both and many others will be too , you have witnessed that.


    Take care , Julia

    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 6:33 PM BST
    Thank you all so much! This has really been so amazing and I appreciate every bit of advice and support. And I plan to stick around for a long time ;) you are all wonderful. I'm trying to let Elizabeth ask what she needs and try to back off for her.

    But I do have a question for those who have transistioned....when it comes to employment, how has the change affected that? She is worried she will not be able to find a job that will 1. Hire her and 2. Pay enough to support us where we are right now.

    She currently works for an apartment complex but the owners are heavily religious Mormons, so she is afraid coming out will put her job in jeopardy and doesn't know how this will work for any future construction/maintenance jobs.
    • 2248 posts
    August 13, 2014 6:55 PM BST

    It is very different in the USA, here in the UK we have laws against unfair dismisal if one transitions whilst in employment and anti discrimination laws when applying for employment. as far as I know in the USA there are a lot of members of the Gender society who as a result of transitioning are now unemployed.


    I have always been self employed here, so its not realy affected me.   It is relatively easy here to change ones name, and legaly change their gender on, documents, including passports, bank details and registations for health servces, taxation etc. 


    As far as I understand, in the USA in most states it is not unlawful to discriminate against transgendered people.   safety is another issue, in some areas of the UK we have the element that would quite happily give trans people a good hiding, we call them tranny bashers, I understand its the same in America where they call them rednecks.   So many things to take into consideration,


    If your husband is transgendered, there is no cure for that, other than to make the change.   (I say husband, because at the moment that is what he/she is)

    some people I know have resisted changing for years, eventually resenting their personal comitments, making for a gloomy relationship, not so much blaming the partner, just getting angry and frustrated with what life has dealt them.   Denied their real needs and asperations, through their own self sacrifice.



    • 71 posts
    August 13, 2014 7:02 PM BST
    I know in the state we live in there are anti discrimination laws for housing, employment, etc for transgendered. But what sucks is that employees still can discriminate but say it's because "someone else was more qualified" or "you're over qualified" just finding a different way to say no.
    • 17 posts
    August 13, 2014 8:03 PM BST

    I believe gender is fluid. I hope you both can find what you are looking for and can support and love each other through this. We  are all here to support each of you.

  • August 13, 2014 8:31 PM BST

    I consider myself furtunate Miranda. I have been offered 2 jobs here in the UK because of my outgoing personallity. One was with the third biggest retailer in the UK and the other was with another large UK retailer selling mainly beauty products and cosmetics.

    I am starting my own business very soon . Could your now husband not consider self employment? . That could be done at the time of coming out , that way clients/customers would only know the female. Just a thought.


    Take care , Julia x .


    This post was edited by Former Member at September 4, 2014 7:42 PM BST
  • August 13, 2014 9:26 PM BST

    Miranda this is for your husband. I cannot find my own recording of it because I have not got the time to find which hard drive it is on . This is someone else's upload of the same song I was going to upload.


    Take care , Julia x

    This post was edited by Former Member at September 4, 2014 7:43 PM BST
    • 71 posts
    August 14, 2014 5:04 AM BST
    I have another question if that ok. I'm reading stories people have written as wives who have stayed in this situation. If Elizabeth becomes Elizabeth legally, will we have to divorce? And then in CA would it be a gay marriage to be remarried?
    • 2248 posts
    August 14, 2014 10:58 AM BST

    Perhaps someone in the USA could answer this, in the UK, one can remain married, BUT they do not get legal recognition of their new gender, its rather confusng because you can still have your passport and other documents in a female gender identity, but if you make aplication to the Gender recognition Panel to have the gender changed on your birth certificate, they issue a temporay certificate of recognition, but one has to divorce to obtain the full permananant certificate and get a new birth certificate.   This then changes other entitlements, to a state pension early entitlement as opposed to a males entitlement.


    Not sure if they issue new birth certificates in the USA, or if its only applicable to certain states.   I don't know what the federal policy is.


    • 2248 posts
    August 14, 2014 5:49 PM BST

    Law 101
    A Reference Guide for California
    Lawyers and Advocates
    © June 2004, April 2006
    Transgender Law Center


    California Transgender Law 101
    I. Identity Documents
    A. State of the law
    • Driver’s License – name may be changed without a court order. Gender marker may be
    changed without applicant having undergone any form of hormone or surgical treatment.
    Medical service provider must sign DMV form 328. People under the age of 18 will need
    parental support to apply unless person is an emancipated minor. (Attachment A – DL 328)
    • Social Security Number – name and gender marker may be changed with appropriate
    supporting documentation. In the past, this documentation did not require a court ordered
    name change. As of late 2005, it seems the policy has changed. Change must be done at
    social security office. (Attachment B – info from SSA website about change of name and
    • Common Law Name Change – while this method of changing a person’s name is falling
    quickly into disfavor due to concerns about identity fraud, it theoretically remains a
    recognized method of a legal name change. (Attachment C – Opinion of Attorney General
    on Common Law Name Changes, June 9, 2000)
    • Court Ordered Name Change -- allowed under California law (California Code of Civil
    Procedure sec. 1275 et seq.). No court can ask if the petitioner has undergone any medical
    procedure prior to requesting a change of name as no such requirement exists under
    California law. People under the age of 18 will need parental support to apply unless person
    is an emancipated minor. Links to California court forms NC-100, NC-110, NC-120, NC-130
    (additional forms necessary if a minor) are available at
    (Attachment D – model P&As in response to request for proof of medical procedure)
    • “Legalizing” Gender – California allows anyone born in California to change the gender
    marker on a California birth certificate with an appropriate court order (California Health and
    Safety Code sec 103425 et seq). While the statute explicitly applies to people born in
    California, equitable jurisdiction has been found to give courts authority to grant change of
    gender for people born outside of California. Some restrictions apply. (Attachment E –
    model P&As for equitable jurisdiction claims)
    • Birth Certificate – name and gender marker may be changed pursuant to a court order. Old
    birth certificate is sealed and new one is issued (California Health and Safety Code sec
    103425 et seq). (Attachment F – CA Dept of Vital Records Publication on Birth
    Certificate Change)
    • Passport – name may be changed either with a court order or proof that the person has been
    using the name for the past five years (this last route to a name change seems to be a
    consistent practice, but no written policy seems to confirm it). Passport office has policy requiring “completed sex reassignment surgery” for issuance of a 10 year passport. No clear
    guidance on what this phrase means. (Attachment G – Passport Bulletin 92-22 only known
    written policy providing guidance to Passport Agents)
    • Selective Service – transgender men seeking government support for programs like
    educational loans will need to get a waiver of selective service filing requirement. This can
    be done through submitting a Request for Status Information Letter available at (Attachment H – Request for Status Information
    • Immigration Service Records and Documents -- green card, visa, employment authorization,
    and/or naturalization certificate. All of these records can be changed. However, some
    confusion exists around what supporting documentation a person would need to do so. (See
    attachment N for more information.)
    • Non-government records (bank, credit cards, etc.) – each company will have its own policy.
    Many institutions are interpreting the Patriot Act to require them to only change the name on
    an account if the account holder produces a court ordered name change.


    an extract if you message me your email adress I will send you the full PDF file (162 pages)




    This post was edited by Cristine, Shye BL at August 14, 2014 10:57 PM BST
  • August 14, 2014 6:34 PM BST

    Hi Miranda and Elizabeth-


    I am also not qualified to advise you and Elizabeth, but I have some very long term experiences in these matters that I will share with you to think about.  This is a critical juncture in your relationship and things need to be carefully thought through. 


    I have been dressing for more than 40 years, and my wife and I have been happily married for 54 years. We have an exceptionally loving, caring and communicative relationship. She has known about my feminine side for 25 years, and does not wish to participate in any aspect of my dressing up or feminine side. She agrees to a space in our house where I can do this and she is aware of the times I go to Tiffany Club meetings or to dances that they sponsor. We talk about everything a lot, especially when she discovered my female activities. This was a slow process, naturally, with some bumps, but cool heads, unheated debate, analysis and resolution has led to a life which for both of us is exceptionally enriched and fulfilling.  She still loves me and I love her.  


    There were compromises along this path. My choice would be to be a full time lady, but this would pain my wife. She had rather I be the dashing young man that she originally met. In other areas, there have been other well thought out compromises, but the just described was the most important.  Some other compromises to consider, especially for Elizabeth.  First both of you should realize that people are a rainbow of gradations with respect to their sexual orientation, and this is the way it should be in a free society.  I am on the end of the spectrum where I decided long ago that I did not want to have sex realighnment surgery or to grow large breasts. To me this was just too final, my choice. This compromise was made not only due to the finality aspect, but I also wanted to be able to go to the beach with my family in a totally happy circumstance as well as do other things in manly attire.  I have a healthy sexual urge for men, but I decided after much thought and analysis that a real man could make life very complicating.  So I use other means.  


    I have seen so many MTF people on this site and other places, and one thing is clear to me; such people seem to me to always move forward to various degrees of conversion to being female. The rainbow is always there. Bless it. I have also observed a rainbow of acceptances from wifes from the termination of relationships to full and joyful participation in the various sexual facets. Another thing that I have observed on the part of MTF people is that they have this urgency to fullfil their womanhood as fast as possible.  I have found that the happiest conclusions come from lots of thought and analysis, making compromises and proceeding in an enlightened way.


    I will, actually, give one piece of advice. If I were Miranda, I would seek professional help to determine where on the sexuallity spectrum you fit. To Elizabeth, please go slowly with everything and think about what you are going to do about your precious wife, children, job, and negotiating in public so that you are happy.


    Miranda, you are a marvel to me.

    Hugs to you both, and with my best thoughts.


    • 17 posts
    August 14, 2014 7:09 PM BST
    Thank you Jacqueline, we are taking this whole prosses slow and we both are going to therapy and talking and thinking about our future by reading ca labor laws and we are pretty secured by the state of California when it comes to situations like this. But we are be very patient with everything.
    • 71 posts
    August 14, 2014 10:34 PM BST
    Thank you very much :) we are trying to find a therapist now. Hopefully dh can be seen by next week. I truly appreciate all the advice and support! I can't even begin to express it.
    • 71 posts
    August 14, 2014 11:09 PM BST
    Huh, I kept refreshing all day but just saw your comment honey. That's weird...maybe because I refreshed on page 1 and then my comment moved me to page 2.
  • August 16, 2014 10:31 AM BST

    It has gone quiet!!!!!!!! Is that a good sign Miranda? I hope you are both keeping well and things are going ok for you both and your children. The no news is good news is not always true but I sincerely hope it is all good.


    You all take care , Julia xx

    • 17 posts
    August 16, 2014 4:10 PM BST

    Hope you are both doing well. x hugs

    • 17 posts
    August 17, 2014 9:32 AM BST
    Sorry everyone. Its been a crazy busy week for the both of us. And I have an appointment with a gender theopist on Thursday we came out to her parent and some of our closest friends and everyone so far is being really understanding and supportive
  • August 17, 2014 11:55 AM BST

    To the both of you.

    Thank you for letting us know and there is no need to be sorry. When Miranda came here with her first post you have noticed that there have been some members here who care.

    My first thought when it went quiet was Crissie's post about the laws is either consuming your time or it threw you both into a state of shock. Crissie will give you the answers on many things but law is her thing , if she does not know the answer she will find it. I know because I have read her posts and links it is scary , it is also the reallity. I think Crissie would agree if I say take it slowly , it is a lot to take in and think about where the law is concerned .


    So take your time and please never forget that Mirnada entered our lives followed by the rest of your family , all we done is our best . Just a small update and nothing has to be to personal just to let us know you are ok every now and then will be just fine.

    I am pleased you have both had the courage to tell some family and  close friends and hope you keep on getting the support from them.


    Take care and thank you for your response from your far away friends here at GS . Julia xx