I cannot tell you if he is just transvetite or has more gender identity resolutions needing to be amended, but I can tell you a little of my personal story. Like most *transgender-ladies, ( I am m2f) I very early felt I was in the wrong body. Now I am trying to get on Hormones, etc. For me it took accepting myself, which took a little while. I think everyone in every walk of life needs to know whom why are in a kind, confident, yet gentle way.
Marissa Mallo said:In all this, you haven't talked about what you are feeling about finding all this out about the person you love. How are you doing?
Firstly Miranda, I must admit, posts like yours suprise me, no mention of an initial feeling of disgust, dissapointment and betrayal. your a very cool and collected person.
It's a lot to take in, The members of our little world are as diverse and varied as you can get, from the fetish aspect, to the genetically induced aspect of gender dysphoria and being born with an inherant physical appearance. ''Intersex''
Cross dressing does not automatically mean a person is ''trangendered'' ''transexual'' confused is generally the initial stage. Examples of none fetish behavour, would be someone who is stressed, post stress disorders spring to mind, say an ex soldier, who has experienced some horrific experience, dresses as an extreme form of escapism, literally sheds the male self and becomes the opposite gender for short periods.
It is essential that a proper diagnosis is obtained, see a gender councellor. He has to get this right for your sake and the sake of the children. There is still uneducated bigoted people out there, life may become very difficult, family and friends might not be so understanding. It won't just be him that is subject to ridicule and scurilous remarks, you will be as well for putting up with his behavour and allowing him to do it. Children can be very cruel as well to their peers as they grow up.
Forget breast implants, if he is cross gender and sometimes wants to revert to a male role, they cannot be unzipped and hidden away.
If he is of a definate mind to transition full time, thats something different, and even then one does not imediately go out and get breast implants, being put on a regime of HRT.
Apart from a general gender confusion condition there are scientific physical and genetic abherations, mutations that can cause Gender Identity disorders, 'GID'
http://gendersociety.com/forums/topic/7790/synopsis-of-the-etiology-of-gend
Ask all the questions you need to, support is here, for families and those affected, glad you joined.
Miranda I personally think you are an amazing woman. Never ever think you have failed him/she . Crissie has pointed out very well it is a disorder , it is not your disorder but it is affecting you and is impacting on your life. You never thought you were going to marry a woman did you? If you had known would you still have married him (him at the time) Did you ever think you would have 2 beautiful children by a man to later become a woman?. You never signed up for this did you?.
Have you noticed the question marks I have used in a few lines? . You are full of questions and you need answers , you have come to the right place. I called you amazing! You are handling this very well. In an ideal world he should have been honest with you from the start , would you have still married him if you had known? . You do both need some professional help , it seems from what I have read he wants to be she more everyday that passes. You have to think ahead of what may happen , it is not going to go away and he did know before he married you. He/she is still the same person on the inside it is the changes on the outside that are or will be hard.
Now can I ask you a question please? You do not have to answer it. You are a woman , did you not notice anything different? Sorry this will be more than one question . Being a woman you know if you are talking to a male don't you? and being a woman you know if you are talking to female , were there no clues?. The only reason I am asking that is because that is who you fell in love with.
A gender psychologist will figure it out for him/her. There is a lot you can or may have allready figured out for yourself . Being a woman as you know is not just about the clothes you wear , being a woman comes from within. I am no specialist but I have come accross many men who think they are female , I know the difference. There have been many come here saying they are transexual , just reading a few posts by them I can clearly see they are not. Being transexual is not a badge of honour as some here seem to think.
I hope things go well for you both and never forgetting your children.
Again you are amazing , take care .
Julia xx
Hi Elizabeth - Other options for what's going on that others have not expressed (that I've seen): gender queer (GQ) and gender fluid (GF). I've also seen GF translated as gender f**ked as, obvously, you bounce back and forth and it doesn't always feel sane.
Things that helped me was being specific to set date nights as Samuel, and taking on new activities as Samuel. I found that blurring the lines between my female self and male self just added to the confusion. In a while it may begin to feel imperitive that you merge both the male and female aspects together and chose a side. Right now, though, you're still exploring what's important to you as female versus what's important to you as male.
I have a female body. Before puberty I wanted to be a mother. After puberty the whole idea left me numb and feeling cold. After I realized I had this side of me that wasn't female and started spending time deliberatly as that side I revisitied the idea of partenthood. Motherhood left me feeling cold. I couldn't connect to it. Fatherhood . . . I'd make a damn good father. Exploring that Idea helped quite a bit. BUT it's not an idea I can currently act on. So I've had to set it aside for a while.
It may also help to reduce stress if you take the approach of on-table/off-table. That is something small and important to be explored for a set time, but other things are off table while your focus is on that small important thing/aspect. If you try this method you'll find it gets easier to work with and that by focusing on just the one thing - instead of trying to gulp it all down at one time - makes it easier to define and take on the aspects of Elizabeth that matter most.
Just some suggestions. I hope things are going well for you.
Sam
Hi Miranda.
I cannot advise you on how to handle your situation , no person here can please remember that. You will get support here and others experiences. Any changes you make in your live's have to be between you and your husband and your decisions , we are strangers to you and not qualified to advise you.
I just wish to clear a few things up that "may" help. Ladyboy? The clue is in the name Lady-Boy (two genders) 99% of Ladyboys do not have gender identity issues , they do it for the money.
Your income! You did say you are a low income family and there is no shame in that but , breast implants are very expensive , it is also hard to hide them. There may come a time when your husband wants them to be removed because of any problems they cause your husband , again very expensive. A gender psychologist will cost less and give you your answers before any mistakes are made. Your husband taking any HRT in the future could render his penis useless so think about that and talk to him about it. If he wants to keep it he obviously wants it to work and you would too I presume? It would mean no more children.
I am really short of time right now so I cannot go into things to much but I will be back later . I have been searching for reasons to log in here lately and you have given me one so thank you.
Please ask your husband one question for me , a simple yes or no please . Ask your husband if he is gay , you can respond here or PM me.
Take care and I will read through this more later when I get a break.
Julia xx
Hi Maranda
Welcome to GS Elizabeth is a very lucky girl having you on her side, I to am married wife knows about me but she never talks to mae about things I'd like to talk to her about, I never sure how to start the conversation fearing another argument.
I cannot quote or give advice from my personal experiences, never been in Elizabeth's situation. I can only speak from what I have learned over the years, from others. The fixation with having breasts and keeping ones appendage, Now this I can relate to, my GF is a pre-op and had breast implants, perhaps one day she will get around to going the whole way, but she does not want to be a man sometimes and a woman at others. but she does take the dominant role during our sexual encounters. just goes to show how diverse and different each of us are.
What does worry me in your circumstances is the effect of on off gender changes upon the children. daddy's a mommy in the morning and daddy in the afternoon, Taking this to an extreme, Elizabeth takes the kids to school and later picks them up as a man.
I don't see 'Gay' coming into it, if perchance you are a woman, if you fancied men, logically that would make you a hetero female. my GF presents as a female, logically that makes me a lesbian, but I enjoy what I get. being in love is the deciding factor, thats my opinion.
Hi Anthony.
Yes someone did ask your wife if you are gay , it was me. Reason? If you do see a gender psychologist that question may be asked . Crissie has virtually given the answer . The definition of a gay person is: Sexually attracted to someone of the same sex/gender. Whether or not you have transitioned does not really come into it. If you feel inside that you are a woman then the answer would be yes lesbian. Complicated isn't it? I was in a relationship with another woman for 23 years and always considered it to be a gay relationship even though at the time I was living most of my life as a male. I have always known I was not a male but just like you had for others sakes had to pretend , my partner was aware from the start of my gender.
That is the only reason I brought the word Gay into this. So back to topic.
You do have two beautiful children! My fisrt part in this topic I ended with "And never forgeting your two children" . I am very sure both of you love each other very much and you would die to protect your children. There is no need to die for them (I hope) but this will affect them at some point.
You and Miranda have a lot to think about , your love for each other will see you through this. At some point you mentioned coming out if I recall (you did I just looked back) You asked for some insight? You need foresight too. Coming out is a big thing to some , you will not have to convince yourself who you are it will be everyone you come into contact with. When I came out I did not have to convince anyone I was me it came natural .
I do truly wish you all the best and that includes your loving family too. You have an amazing wife just as I did before my partner passed away. Sometimes in life you have to make sacrifices , I have made many. Love is beautiful thing , cherish it , cherish Miranda and your children. Keep working together on this and one day it will hopefully all fall into place and have the one thing I wish for you all "A happy ending".
Take care , Julia .
There is no need to thank me Anthony , it is not that beautiful. It came from a woman. Yes I was born in a male body but I have pieces of paper to prove I am female. That is the crazy part in all of this , a genetic female does not have to prove who she is. I have genetic female friends who envy me , they envy my figure and my hair ect. At times I have to correct them , it is me that envy's them. They have the body I was denied at birth , but I made it.
At the start of this I stated Miranda gave me a reason to log in here! I do hover my cursor over the delete my account fairly often , if I make it untill January it will be a miracle , it will be a whole year. I have been a member on and off here for 8 maybe 9 years.
It is topics like this that make things worth while here , yes I have my friends here and their contact details but it is not the same as being here.
Being able to help others in any way however small is important to me , it is part of my life. I could tell you something about yesterday that I done and made someone very happy but it would be way off topic here , she thinks it made her feel good but my final words to her gave me a wonderful feeling inside.
If I ever do vanish from here Crissie will always be here for you both and many others will be too , you have witnessed that.
Take care , Julia
It is very different in the USA, here in the UK we have laws against unfair dismisal if one transitions whilst in employment and anti discrimination laws when applying for employment. as far as I know in the USA there are a lot of members of the Gender society who as a result of transitioning are now unemployed.
I have always been self employed here, so its not realy affected me. It is relatively easy here to change ones name, and legaly change their gender on, documents, including passports, bank details and registations for health servces, taxation etc.
As far as I understand, in the USA in most states it is not unlawful to discriminate against transgendered people. safety is another issue, in some areas of the UK we have the element that would quite happily give trans people a good hiding, we call them tranny bashers, I understand its the same in America where they call them rednecks. So many things to take into consideration,
If your husband is transgendered, there is no cure for that, other than to make the change. (I say husband, because at the moment that is what he/she is)
some people I know have resisted changing for years, eventually resenting their personal comitments, making for a gloomy relationship, not so much blaming the partner, just getting angry and frustrated with what life has dealt them. Denied their real needs and asperations, through their own self sacrifice.
I believe gender is fluid. I hope you both can find what you are looking for and can support and love each other through this. We are all here to support each of you.
I consider myself furtunate Miranda. I have been offered 2 jobs here in the UK because of my outgoing personallity. One was with the third biggest retailer in the UK and the other was with another large UK retailer selling mainly beauty products and cosmetics.
I am starting my own business very soon . Could your now husband not consider self employment? . That could be done at the time of coming out , that way clients/customers would only know the female. Just a thought.
Take care , Julia x .
Miranda this is for your husband. I cannot find my own recording of it because I have not got the time to find which hard drive it is on . This is someone else's upload of the same song I was going to upload.
Take care , Julia x
Perhaps someone in the USA could answer this, in the UK, one can remain married, BUT they do not get legal recognition of their new gender, its rather confusng because you can still have your passport and other documents in a female gender identity, but if you make aplication to the Gender recognition Panel to have the gender changed on your birth certificate, they issue a temporay certificate of recognition, but one has to divorce to obtain the full permananant certificate and get a new birth certificate. This then changes other entitlements, to a state pension early entitlement as opposed to a males entitlement.
Not sure if they issue new birth certificates in the USA, or if its only applicable to certain states. I don't know what the federal policy is.
California
Transgender
Law 101
A Reference Guide for California
Lawyers and Advocates
© June 2004, April 2006
Transgender Law Center
ADVOCATING FOR TRANSEXUALS
California Transgender Law 101
I. Identity Documents
A. State of the law
• Driver’s License – name may be changed without a court order. Gender marker may be
changed without applicant having undergone any form of hormone or surgical treatment.
Medical service provider must sign DMV form 328. People under the age of 18 will need
parental support to apply unless person is an emancipated minor. (Attachment A – DL 328)
• Social Security Number – name and gender marker may be changed with appropriate
supporting documentation. In the past, this documentation did not require a court ordered
name change. As of late 2005, it seems the policy has changed. Change must be done at
social security office. (Attachment B – info from SSA website about change of name and
gender)
• Common Law Name Change – while this method of changing a person’s name is falling
quickly into disfavor due to concerns about identity fraud, it theoretically remains a
recognized method of a legal name change. (Attachment C – Opinion of Attorney General
on Common Law Name Changes, June 9, 2000)
• Court Ordered Name Change -- allowed under California law (California Code of Civil
Procedure sec. 1275 et seq.). No court can ask if the petitioner has undergone any medical
procedure prior to requesting a change of name as no such requirement exists under
California law. People under the age of 18 will need parental support to apply unless person
is an emancipated minor. Links to California court forms NC-100, NC-110, NC-120, NC-130
(additional forms necessary if a minor) are available at www.transgenderlawcenter.org.
(Attachment D – model P&As in response to request for proof of medical procedure)
• “Legalizing” Gender – California allows anyone born in California to change the gender
marker on a California birth certificate with an appropriate court order (California Health and
Safety Code sec 103425 et seq). While the statute explicitly applies to people born in
California, equitable jurisdiction has been found to give courts authority to grant change of
gender for people born outside of California. Some restrictions apply. (Attachment E –
model P&As for equitable jurisdiction claims)
• Birth Certificate – name and gender marker may be changed pursuant to a court order. Old
birth certificate is sealed and new one is issued (California Health and Safety Code sec
103425 et seq). (Attachment F – CA Dept of Vital Records Publication on Birth
Certificate Change)
• Passport – name may be changed either with a court order or proof that the person has been
using the name for the past five years (this last route to a name change seems to be a
consistent practice, but no written policy seems to confirm it). Passport office has policy requiring “completed sex reassignment surgery” for issuance of a 10 year passport. No clear
guidance on what this phrase means. (Attachment G – Passport Bulletin 92-22 only known
written policy providing guidance to Passport Agents)
• Selective Service – transgender men seeking government support for programs like
educational loans will need to get a waiver of selective service filing requirement. This can
be done through submitting a Request for Status Information Letter available at
www.sss.gov/PDFs/SILForm.pdf.. (Attachment H – Request for Status Information
Letter)
• Immigration Service Records and Documents -- green card, visa, employment authorization,
and/or naturalization certificate. All of these records can be changed. However, some
confusion exists around what supporting documentation a person would need to do so. (See
attachment N for more information.)
• Non-government records (bank, credit cards, etc.) – each company will have its own policy.
Many institutions are interpreting the Patriot Act to require them to only change the name on
an account if the account holder produces a court ordered name change.
an extract if you message me your email adress I will send you the full PDF file (162 pages)
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncdsv.org%2Fimages%2Fca_trans_law_101.pdf&ei=Q-vsU8HAFcuy7AbnxIHYAw&usg=AFQjCNF-6vMtrB4_4qPQiD9AkehEZ-yTTw&bvm=bv.72938740,d.ZGU
OR:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects_of_transsexualism_in_the_United_States
Hi Miranda and Elizabeth-
I am also not qualified to advise you and Elizabeth, but I have some very long term experiences in these matters that I will share with you to think about. This is a critical juncture in your relationship and things need to be carefully thought through.
I have been dressing for more than 40 years, and my wife and I have been happily married for 54 years. We have an exceptionally loving, caring and communicative relationship. She has known about my feminine side for 25 years, and does not wish to participate in any aspect of my dressing up or feminine side. She agrees to a space in our house where I can do this and she is aware of the times I go to Tiffany Club meetings or to dances that they sponsor. We talk about everything a lot, especially when she discovered my female activities. This was a slow process, naturally, with some bumps, but cool heads, unheated debate, analysis and resolution has led to a life which for both of us is exceptionally enriched and fulfilling. She still loves me and I love her.
There were compromises along this path. My choice would be to be a full time lady, but this would pain my wife. She had rather I be the dashing young man that she originally met. In other areas, there have been other well thought out compromises, but the just described was the most important. Some other compromises to consider, especially for Elizabeth. First both of you should realize that people are a rainbow of gradations with respect to their sexual orientation, and this is the way it should be in a free society. I am on the end of the spectrum where I decided long ago that I did not want to have sex realighnment surgery or to grow large breasts. To me this was just too final, my choice. This compromise was made not only due to the finality aspect, but I also wanted to be able to go to the beach with my family in a totally happy circumstance as well as do other things in manly attire. I have a healthy sexual urge for men, but I decided after much thought and analysis that a real man could make life very complicating. So I use other means.
I have seen so many MTF people on this site and other places, and one thing is clear to me; such people seem to me to always move forward to various degrees of conversion to being female. The rainbow is always there. Bless it. I have also observed a rainbow of acceptances from wifes from the termination of relationships to full and joyful participation in the various sexual facets. Another thing that I have observed on the part of MTF people is that they have this urgency to fullfil their womanhood as fast as possible. I have found that the happiest conclusions come from lots of thought and analysis, making compromises and proceeding in an enlightened way.
I will, actually, give one piece of advice. If I were Miranda, I would seek professional help to determine where on the sexuallity spectrum you fit. To Elizabeth, please go slowly with everything and think about what you are going to do about your precious wife, children, job, and negotiating in public so that you are happy.
Miranda, you are a marvel to me.
Hugs to you both, and with my best thoughts.
Jacqueline
It has gone quiet!!!!!!!! Is that a good sign Miranda? I hope you are both keeping well and things are going ok for you both and your children. The no news is good news is not always true but I sincerely hope it is all good.
You all take care , Julia xx
Hope you are both doing well. x hugs
To the both of you.
Thank you for letting us know and there is no need to be sorry. When Miranda came here with her first post you have noticed that there have been some members here who care.
My first thought when it went quiet was Crissie's post about the laws is either consuming your time or it threw you both into a state of shock. Crissie will give you the answers on many things but law is her thing , if she does not know the answer she will find it. I know because I have read her posts and links it is scary , it is also the reallity. I think Crissie would agree if I say take it slowly , it is a lot to take in and think about where the law is concerned .
So take your time and please never forget that Mirnada entered our lives followed by the rest of your family , all we done is our best . Just a small update and nothing has to be to personal just to let us know you are ok every now and then will be just fine.
I am pleased you have both had the courage to tell some family and close friends and hope you keep on getting the support from them.
Take care and thank you for your response from your far away friends here at GS . Julia xx