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    • February 9, 2018 7:20 PM GMT
    • Spiro has far too many potential negative side effects to use it.  It has only been in the last year that it finally is being brought up.  So many of us transitioned with Spiro being prescribed as the AA when all the medical world really did here was "copy and paste" from prior prescribers their protocol without truly looking into this drug.  So bad advice has been passed on for years there is very little money in working medically with the trans world (unless you're a plastic surgeon), virtually no research is actually done on the drugs.  There's been no R&D done specifically to find or discredit good or bad drugs because there is no funding and no ultimate "payout", which is what the Big Pharma world is truly about.  Do you think that Big Pharma actually cares about people???  Ha!  Not a chance!  It's about making money, boatloads of it, and they will attempt to block anything coming down the pike that they do not patents for or threatens their core business (ie: medical marijuana, herbal solutions, etc)....if you believe otherwise, you're very naive!!  

      Let me toss this back out...spiro has been prescribed for many years to people who have congestive heart failure, the inability to move liquid build ups affecting the heart.  People literally drown from these fluid buildups.  Spiro was intended to be a diuretic and move them out.  Hundreds of thousands of patients in US have been prescribed this drug over the years.  It is a staple product in the protocol of this disease and Big Pharma makes a pretty penny selling it as the cost of developing it has been recouped so many times over.  But has anyone ever heard of males complaining about developing breasts, becoming impotent, or seeing their "willies" shrink from using this?  No...not at all...but one of the possible side effects is "gynecomastia".  It can happen and probably has to some degree, but certainly not enough to warrant attention and certainly not enough to make doctors put a hold on it in prescribing to those with the disease.  Somewhere along the way in trans history, a doctor saw the potential side effect and decided this was would the perfect AA.  No R&D into it, just reading up in his or her journals and stepping up to prescribe it.  So Doctor A prescribes it and shares with Doctor B when Doctor B get their first trans patient.  Dr. B goes, "ah ha, I've got it!!" and precribed it.  Before you know, word has traveled thru the medical world that Spiro is the latest and greatest drug to use as an AA.  This protocol is now THE word in trans care!  But reality is that it might lower your T some, which generally is enough to allow estrogen to do the rest all by itself.  But it is this true lack of research coupled with doctor's fear of law suits or malpractice that drives the poor medical attention we receive.  There are many doctors today still prescribing Premarin or Dianne35!!!  Why?  Because it was used 30 years ago and therefore must work!!  WTF!!!  

      Frankly, you're probably going to find the best solutions for what and how much to use from women in our community that are or have transitioned...there are a couple of places where you can find this information readily and learn about the "pro's" and "con's" of pretty much anything.  Where the doctor is truly helpful is in monitoring your blood levels and overall health.  But I would not readily accept a prescription if I felt it was not "state of the art" nor overwhelmingly endorsed by my sisters in our community.  It's sad, but today, is the best way to proceed!  Don't allow a doctor to shove something at you without a good, logical argument where you can present updated information on successful protocols.  While they might like it, they do work for YOU and not the other way around.  If they refuse to listen or look into it themselves and present a good case as to why they are prescribing something, find another doctor!!!


      Traci xoxo

    • February 3, 2018 7:51 PM GMT
    • Hi
      My doctor's had me on spiro now for 2 weeks & I just did my first injection of Estradiol Valerate to day. I'll be doing my own injections at home for the next 3 months. 1ML every 2 weeks. I don't know if that's a lot or a little.

    • February 1, 2018 4:50 PM GMT
    • So, am I hearing stay away from Spiro? or is that needed when you start HRT? I have not started yet. Been to a therapist for a month who said I was ready for HRT the 2nd time I saw her since I dress almost 24/7, No laser treatments yet. Such a pain. and of course my voice. I have only been at this for 6 months or so. 

      But yearned for it since I was very young. Some of the only reasons I dress male still are for the few family members that don't know Quite yet, Work, which I have to uphold a professional atmosphere in front of customers. :(, and If I just have Nothing to wear that day. I am still lacking clothing. I am disabled so buying clothes is a once a month occasion which I don't get to spend very much. 


      Anyway, I'm new here and haven't really gone though the forums yet. I just saw this and hopped in.  HRT should be starting within aprox 3 months from now. 

      I feel I should be researching abit more before I have the doctor start me out on them. Especially since it is going to be paid for by the state/taxpayers. Since My SSI disability insurance will be paying for it. TYVM. :)


      Any advice?

    • January 26, 2018 10:37 PM GMT
    • As always, Thanks Traci.

    • January 17, 2018 1:44 AM GMT
    • My nipples got very thick and long and were extremely tender during growth spurts. Not so much itchy...
      One of the negative side effects of spiro (there are plenty) is the growth of visceral fat around your organs. Don’t task me with digging up the source, but I discovered in numerous postings that this is common. Visceral fat is fat you never lose as it steadfastly surrounds your organs and is not susceptible to the efforts of dieting. It is our enemy in trying to transition and look our best. It responsible for why so many of us appear “barrel chested” rather than cut svelte. Spiro is a terrible drug to use and it’s primarily purpose is the reduce body fluids to those who have congestive heart failure. If it really was a good AA, wouldn’t we be hearing from hundreds of thousands of men complaining about developing female secondary characteristics? You more than likely only need estrogen at this point to feminize your body.
      Best wishes always!
      Traci xoxo

    • January 8, 2018 1:35 AM GMT
    • I've been HRT for 9 months now. Things are going very well. Just wondering if any other girls have experienced their nipples getting incredibly itchy when going through a growth spurt. No matter what I try I can get the itching to stop! It will then go away for a few weeks and then another growth spurt and instant itch!

    • August 23, 2017 1:42 AM BST
    • Soon it will be 6 months, where does the time go! I'm really start to notice the effects, especially after changing the spiro I was getting to the brand name. The generic company, ask for the name if you have similar problems with generic medications, that made to the spiro I was taking might have well been sending me sugar pills. I did absolutely nothing the medication is supposed to do, even for heart issues. Over the past few weeks with increased estrace and spiro I've notices a tone of changes. First of course, I'm to the point of needing to bra shop again because the old ones are too tight. Second, hair growth on the face has slowed. Between that and laser there are days I go out with absolutely no makeup and I'm not treated differently.


      I'll check back in later next month. Right now I have to get ready for a trip with a wonderful that I met online. She is the apple of my eye and I have good feelings about us.


    • August 8, 2017 12:48 AM BST
    • Hi Cynthia,

      Thanks so much for sharing this post! For the longest time I'd been struggling with a few of the side effects you mentioned, but could never be sure if this was a normal thing or just me! Apparently this post says hrt side effects are fairly common / the list is pretty long? It wasn't until I stumbled on your post that I found someone with a similar experience, so thanks again for sharing this. Really appreciate it, and hope your 6 month anniversary is as great as you want it to be! :) 

    • July 4, 2017 9:16 PM BST
    • Today marks my 3rd month on HRT. I'm loving the effects on my body. My hair on my head is much fuller, and more of a pain. My breasts are steadily getting larger. They always ache when I get up in the morning. The parts that I detest are shrinking. So, I'm a happy girl and can't wait for the 6 month anniversary.

    • December 17, 2017 10:02 PM GMT
    • Once again, *crickets*!  (smile)


    • August 3, 2017 4:09 AM BST
    • Thanks for that info. At least one of the formulas shows added stearates and gelatine capsules. I've started building a list of (nonprescription) ingredients and will probably use a FileMaker Pro database to catalog at least a few dozen phytoestrogen sources. It will list botanical names, common names, leading geographical sources and online commercial sources for single phytoestrogen plants and herbs from the largest online herbal suppliers. Some of the ingrediants can be obtained from local wicca and herb shops. I've built up a lot of files on this over the last year. I want to experiment and learn from others which ones seem most effective. I'd like to make hormonal formulas, learn to make breast creams, suppositories, tisanes, beverages, food recipes and lots of things just for myself and any TG friends. I would not want to do this as a business because then it would require FDA compliance and so forth, which can get very complicated. Later I can write about it online and share any ideas I find or come up with. But I won't be starting right away. 'Just have way too many projects happinging right now. Maybe by September I might start buying ingredients.

    • August 2, 2017 11:36 PM BST
    • I replied with a pic and link to your email...(smile)


    • August 2, 2017 11:02 PM BST
    • I'm in a similar position. I can afford what I want if it's not a waste of money. Notwithstanding what I tell the world, my age is only a teensy bit less than yours and likewise my health is fantastic. Not a gym buff and usually don't get enough exercise but unlike many vegans who eat low quality food, I eat a low salt, low oil, low sweet vegan diet with plenty of colorful and juicy organic veggies and good clean water from glass bottles. I'm fairly thin with incredibly smooth skin for my age.  I think I wear the same bra size as you but mine has mostly padding. I will go to your profile now and try to message you.

    • August 2, 2017 8:13 PM BST
    • lol on the, they are all mine! (smile)

      I'm a "full A" or smallish

       B cup but wear 38B bras when I wear them as it's a better fit for a born male torso...message me and I'll send you the link to the site of my source for the plants.  Just mentioning it in here usually elicits a firestorm of negative responses and I like and respect those that do too much to engage in any debate at this point.  It is what it is...I'm not a salesperson for their products, just a completely satisfied, almost 8 year user. 


      As there are numerous pharma solutions to medical issues, there are and have been for thousands of years, natural solutions as well.  I'm a believer in alternative medicine and healing and my overall health is off the charts for someone my age. (knock on wood)  I have the energy and looks of a much younger person than a 67 ought to have so I must be on to something that works well with my body and metabolism.  But it is a topic I cannot win in here so I usually just let things slide without engaging in conversations that will more than likely create ill feelings.  It has happened in the past if you go back and look at older threads from the "Hormone" thread.  While I do not argue against the effectiveness of the pharma route, I just know there are other solutions.  

      That said, my protocol costs a lot more per month over prescribed meds but I have the means to be able to choose whatever I wish to.


      Good luck with your search...



    • August 2, 2017 6:34 PM BST
    • Hi Traci, Even if you aren't vegan, it looks like you've attained some breast development using those "plants". Can you tell me what you have been using? I think I've heard of them all but I'd be curious to know. I'm primarily imnterested in plant-derived pharmaceutical hormones that qualify for SRS but also interested in all other plant-derived hormones. I was unable to look at your photos because each time I tried, the system said they are unavailable at this time. But the profile pic shows some curvature, presumably natural without being taped as the pro queens do it. Thanks for the input.

    • August 2, 2017 2:37 AM BST
    • For what it's worth, if you look at my profile pic and others in my albums, this was all done with plants...but I know better than to carry this conversation further...I have zero credibility expect for the small handful of people I've met thru this site that rarely ever post, let alone even log in here any more.  

      My take is that there are alternatives to prescribed, period...might they be weaker than the pharm products?  Possibly...  did they work well for me?  Absolutely without a doubt...I've been passing seemlessly into mainstream society for years now and can even wear a two piece bathing suit at the beach and turn heads for the right reasons!  (smile)

      But I'm not a vegan Dollina so my input here based on your topics is a moot point.  I just had to get it off my chest...

      Best wishes in your search for answers...

      Traci xoxo

    • August 1, 2017 11:33 PM BST
    • Yes, Harvard has some credibility but 17 beta-estradiol might just be one kind of estradiol.

      First problem: Bioidentical estradiol is made by synthesis. Synthesis usually means a conversion of one chemical into another, using untold chemicals. Unless the untold chemicals are fully revealed, there is no way to prove it's totally free of animal products.

      Second problem: Even if plants are the primary source of estradiol, that's good but pharmaceuticals are often blended with lots of animal -sourced things, like animal-derives stearates. In your first post you mention that you found "magnesium stearate" in the estradiol that you checked. There is no transparency in the pharm industry so we vegans do not know if that's the usual animal derived stearate or the less usual plant-derived stearate. And then again, we don't know if the sysnthesis of a plant-derived stearate is always free of anaiml-derived chemicals used to make it.

      Basically, most people don't know what's in these drugs because they are pretty much secret formulas, not single ingedients.

      CORRECTION: In a previous post above I mentioned "steroids" but I meant stearates. Estradiol is itself a steroid occuring naturally in animals and humans. Stearates used in drug and vitamin formulas are usually from animal sources.


    • August 1, 2017 10:49 PM BST
    • Hopefully Harvard is credible:

      "Bioidentical hormones — hormones that are identical in molecular structure to the hormones women make in their bodies. They're not found in this form in nature but are made, or synthesized, from a plant chemical extracted from yams and soy. Bioidentical estrogens are 17 beta-estradiol, estrone, and estriol. (Estradiol is the form of estrogen that decreases at menopause.)"

      The only animal-derived estrogen that I know of is Premarin, which is no longer on the UK gender clinics' list of prescribed treatments.


    • August 1, 2017 10:30 PM BST
    • Hi Lucy, My interst in this topic of vegan and transgender intersectionality is for me but I'm also gathering info because I may wish to write about it later. Yes, I've considered estradiol. You say it's plant-derived. How do you know estradiol is plant derived? Can you point to a credible source online? I could not find one. And even if it is plant-derived, any added steroids are not quaranteed to be plant derived. I know that steriods are manufactured from animal slaughter products and sometimes supposedly from plant sources. but unless it's stated in writing on the package, there is no evidence to say it's a plant-derived steroid. And most companies do not care about informing consumers what's vegan and what's not.

    • August 1, 2017 8:40 PM BST
    • Have you considered estradiol? Although it's bio-identical to human estradiol it is actually plant-derived, and is certainly very effective.

      I found some info on one type of tablet, presumably other brands won't differ much; apparently they also contain the "following inactive ingredients: anhydrous lactose, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and polacrilin potassium. In addition, the 1 mg tablets also contain D&C Red #30, D&C Yellow #10, and FD&C Blue #1. The 2 mg tablets also contain D&C Yellow #10, and FD&C Blue #1."

      I looked up the colourings (why they need those in tablets is beyond me), none of them are animal derived.


    • August 1, 2017 2:11 PM BST
    • I'm curious to hear from any ethical vegan transgender MTF and FTM people ONLY.... not so much non-vegans or trollers....... regarding your views about plant-based hormones. Pueraria Mirifica has been discussed and I'm conviced it has some serious merit. Feel free to discuss the legal hormone regimen requirements of SRS and how these requirements may infringe on the right of vegans to pursue SRS. I do not want a debate about plant-based versus animal-based hormones because us true ethical vegans are going to work strictly within the boundaries of using products that are ethically derived without animal enslavement regardless of the naysayers who incorrectly claim that there are no effective botanicals. I have a general suspicion that most pharmaceuticals are animal derived products. Yes, I know people will tell me they are largely synthesized but that is not a simple truth. Syntheisization is not a clear indication of beong plant-derived or animal free. And most medicines come in gelatine capsules which is something no ethical vegan will consume in a non-emergency. Another bottom line issue regards any legal right we may or may not have to be informed of every ingredient and process used in the formation of proprrietary hormone pharmaceuticals. Let's talk about botanical pharmaceuticals, meaning specifically any plant-derived hormones that require a prescription. Let's also talk about plant-based hormones in general as well. As a footnote, I've had a longtime pen friend in Europe who has used Pueraria Mirifica for two years. She has experienced marvelous breast development. And I've heard this from other independent sources as well.

    • July 23, 2017 10:29 PM BST
    • I really have so much to learn.  Are there any accurate web sites that will cover this?  There seems to be a lot of info out there, but what to trust?


      Lucy, your opinion is very valuable.  You are giving me real information from your own experience and reading.  



    • July 20, 2017 11:55 PM BST
    • "I have come accross some references to using herbs as opposed to animal based hormones in order to gain the desired results."

      Animal based hormones? I can only think of one animal based form of oestrogen - Premarin; which is extracted from the urine of pregnant mares, but that is really not prescribed any more, at least not round here, probably because it's such a gross way of obtaining oestrogen.

      "Standard HRT"

      Presumably you mean, as opposed to "herbal HRT". Undoubtedly the safest form of hormone replacement therapy is bioidentical oestrogen, which, like all the herbals out there, is derived from plant products, soy or yam I think.

      As Katia points out, many of these herbals are toxic in large doses, and the main difference between herbals and bioidenticals is that herbals contain a fraction of the amount of oestrogen. So you need to consume more to get similar effects, risking toxicity.

      That's if they work at all, because the herbal hormone industry is a hotbed of quackery. Inevitably herbal hormones are hugely expensive compared to bioidenticals, weaker, potentially more toxic, and not subject to the same testing and regulations as standard hormones as herbals are considered a food supplement.

      Some girls swear by them, I am entirely sceptical, and yes, I've tried a few.

      Bioidentical oestrogen means it's exactly the same as human oestrogen. There can be nothing better if you want to achieve feminisation. It's suprisingly inexpensive too.

      Don't take any medication, herbal or otherwise, on a whim. If you are going to take any form of hormones you should only do so if you intend to transition. Just my opinion.



    • July 18, 2017 10:13 PM BST
    • No expert on hormonal treatments, but I do use herbs a lot for all manner of ailments and emergencies, and this leaves me puzzled... Fennel has many properties and is a wonderful herb but, er... Black Cohosh is a powerful fellow, that you want to treat with respect because in bigger doses it is toxic. No personal experiences of Rodheola or Maca.

      Do not assume that because they are "just herbs" you can up the dosage, mix and match at will. Herbs can be as powerful as chemical drugs (else why would they work??) and require some caution.

      I have to say my trust in herbal medicine is pretty much inexhaustible, but there is too much of a tendency to attribute very fancy properties to herbs, with I am not sure what agenda...

      Echinacea was suddenly attributed the power to cure anything except outright beheading a few years back... of course when these claims were put to the test they turned out to be mostly bogus and the whole herbal medicine philosophy was thrown into ridicule.

      Christ, if Fennel provided the, ahem, *desired results* you could not move for boobs in Italy, we eat it as salad!!

      My advice is to take these claims with a grain of salt. That said there are good herbal practitioners who have both an open mind and good scientific basis and who will probably be able to give you a more informed response... I trust herbs with my life (literally) but I would do some serious research on this.

    • July 18, 2017 9:59 PM BST
    • I have come accross some references to using herbs as opposed to animal based hormones in order to gain the desired results.  These include Fennel of all things.  Names like Black Cohosh, Rhodeola Rosea and Maca all sound viable.  But what are the dangers and can you mix and match?  What are the time periods like compared to standard HRT?



    • July 19, 2017 9:09 PM BST
    • Kathi Miller said:

      Hi Kyma,

      Edit edit edit....If you read my earlier post, disregard. I went to WebMD and your results are within normal ranges for Total Testosterone. Given you had the test done at a wellness clinic, I'm not surprised that the nurse quoted the wrong values for normal range. According to WebMD, the normal range for Total Testosterone in a healthy male is 270 ~ 1070 ng/dL. You are withing that range, so all is good. Sort of. The normal range of Total Testosterone for a woman is 15 ~ 70 ng/dL. So, if you are looking to be more feminine, that nasty testosterone has got to go! :-) See your GP to start hormone treatments to lower testosterone and raise estrogen. Good luck on your journey...

      You were very right ma'am. It was a new test for lab..... had not set reference range.. should of been 348 - 1197 ram Range for ok "male" health, I was 350.7. Super low end. Might be why having other problems.

    • July 19, 2017 3:24 PM BST
    • Nurse is running about 6 additional test. To try to resolve... I'm getting all my hormones tested..

      A little more of why I requested test.

      4 months ago, general doctor wanted to run t test.

      Result= very low
      Repeated test

      Result= bottom of range

      Did nothing after that.

      I have no physically problems. All other test very good. mentally, it's hard for me to have an erection and orgasm about impossible during sex.

      This is too freaking weird, and I wonder why I want do fem things....

      Have a feeling I'm headed to an endo doctor, for not the reason I originally though I might go.

    • July 19, 2017 3:11 PM BST
    • Hi Kyma,

      Edit edit edit....If you read my earlier post, disregard. I went to WebMD and your results are within normal ranges for Total Testosterone. Given you had the test done at a wellness clinic, I'm not surprised that the nurse quoted the wrong values for normal range. According to WebMD, the normal range for Total Testosterone in a healthy male is 270 ~ 1070 ng/dL. You are withing that range, so all is good. Sort of. The normal range of Total Testosterone for a woman is 15 ~ 70 ng/dL. So, if you are looking to be more feminine, that nasty testosterone has got to go! :-) See your GP to start hormone treatments to lower testosterone and raise estrogen. Good luck on your journey...

    • July 19, 2017 2:43 PM BST
    • I am not taking anything.... got back wellness check blood sample. I ask my nurse to run t level also. They did total testosterone test.

      1.5 to 6.84 was normal range

      I tested 350.70...

      Anyone have any thoughts on this... or problems I need to be concerned about

    • July 7, 2017 7:37 PM BST

    • July 7, 2017 6:48 AM BST
    • Traci Lee O'Gara said:

      I know many people have had much success in Thailand...they are considered "state of he art" at a couple of facilities...personally, if it were me, I'd wait a few years to allow your breasts to develop naturally before you "stack" stuff over them for they will continue to grow and could end up looking pretty weird if you rush it.  Hun, patience is a virtue here and there are no shortcuts to a successful transition.  Do not succumb to temptations to wanting it all "now".  Heck, it takes CIS Women a half dozen years or more to go thru puberty and that is exactly what we are doing as do give this some thought...




      hi traci, i think your advice is sound and good.

      i guess i will train myself to be patient and wait.... ^.^ thank you so much.

    • July 6, 2017 4:26 PM BST
    • I know many people have had much success in Thailand...they are considered "state of he art" at a couple of facilities...personally, if it were me, I'd wait a few years to allow your breasts to develop naturally before you "stack" stuff over them for they will continue to grow and could end up looking pretty weird if you rush it.  Hun, patience is a virtue here and there are no shortcuts to a successful transition.  Do not succumb to temptations to wanting it all "now".  Heck, it takes CIS Women a half dozen years or more to go thru puberty and that is exactly what we are doing as do give this some thought...



    • July 6, 2017 7:24 AM BST
    • Traci Lee O'Gara said:

      Nope...mine are "real"...(smile)




      i may be a little bit impatient... lol

      i am thinking of doing it in asia, please if someone has any idea, let me know, i believe it is cheaper in asia but is standards worthy? I know korea and singapore should be the high standard of asia, since they are more or less westernized society.

      anyone done breast augmentation here in singapore?


      been saving up for years =)

    • July 4, 2017 9:30 PM BST
    • 100% natural here as well. Only A cup but only been on HRT 3 months so need to give it more time

    • July 4, 2017 9:10 PM BST
    • Nope...mine are "real"...(smile)


    • July 4, 2017 6:17 AM BST
    • hi there! did anyone done breast augmentation in singapore or korea? I thinking of doing breast implants there with hormone treatment.

    • July 6, 2017 4:40 PM BST
    • The USA has primitive care at best with only small isolated pockets of genuinely concerned and knowledgable practioners willing to work with us.  Most underprescribe proper dosages erring on the cautious side and often write scripts for things like ethinyl estradiol or premarin which have been proven to be either extremely risky or basically uselss.  To get them to open their eyes and and look at us as patients who actually grasp what they need more so than the doctors themselves is most often futile and creates an adversarial position between doctor and patient.  To find a doctor willing and open to viewing us as "equals" in this is rare and worth the effort to work with. I'm fairly certain that a large proportion of our community has spent countless hours researching, questioning, and sifting thru tons of available information out there to be able to come up with solid protocols to get started and safely and effectively go forward.

      But there's so many hurdles for us to overcome within the medical and insurance world and everybody's situation appears to be different. 

      One day, some day, there will be an actual "Tranny Handbook" which provides proper and realisitc guidelines and protocols based one's age and situation.  Until then, we just plug along the best we can!  The UK at least has a mechanism in place to work with us.  The USA is helter skelter...

      Traci xoxo

    • July 4, 2017 10:23 PM BST
    • The great thing about the UK National Health services and the UK Gender Recognition Act is that genuine doctors will treat all patients with the same jaded attitude.   Seriously though, most doctors, will if they don't understand the complexities of Transgender disorders will refer a person to a someone who knows what is what, waiting times vary from area to area, due to financial limitations, an over burdened health service.   We do have specialist gender clinics.   I should imagine in a lot of countries where people have to pay private medical insurance, a doctors response and attitude will depend on if a policy covers such treatments, so in those cases it is all about an ability to pay.I had my surgery done in Berne, for several reasons, they did the procedure I thought was best for me, secondly it was expediant once I was ready for it, without a lengthy wait, and in the event something went wrong or there were complications it was'nt as far away as Thailand. but it was'nt the cheapest.

    • July 4, 2017 9:31 PM BST
    • One of the primary reasons for people to turn to the internet pharmacies is because of the lack of good care, at least here in the USA.  Most doctors are not schooled nor care about us and thus when scheduled, usually only provide "solutions" that they have "cut and pasted" from guess where?  Yup, trans web sites that share information on their transitioning.  This is why a drug like Spiro is prescribed time after time to eliminate testosterone when the truth is Spiro is a T "blocker" and is used primarily to reduce sweling in extremities in people who have congestive heart failure.  And the "myth" of the "success" of this drug gets passed down not only to the medical field, but also m2F transitioners years after year.  Virtually all are ignorant of the potential for brutal side effects.  And then many girls think that if 100mg is a "normal" dose, that 200 or even 400mg will help them transition even faster!  


      As there is no money to be made in our community due to such a small incidence of trans folks in the overall population, there have never been any clinical studies done over time to find what really works and what doesn't.  Only a handful of medical types have taken it upon themselves to go further and thus provide good care.  There are a few here in the USA that are m2F women and are doing remarkable work, but there are not enough of them.  


      Fact:  I knew a TON more about HRT and transitioning than my general practioner and endo.  I no longer consult with them on any matter regarding hormones.  I truly feel they wish I would just go away and not bother them.  Their wish has been granted...(smile)


      Traci xoxo

    • July 4, 2017 7:56 AM BST
    • took me an hour to read finish this thread. really useful to understand.

      thanks for sharing :)

    • July 4, 2017 6:19 AM BST
    • i wear a bra for aesthetic purposes.. want the shape of my body to be nice fitting and curvy

    • June 28, 2017 11:07 PM BST
    • I'm 48 and started 3 months ago, close enough to 3 months. The most immediate noticable change were the emontional changes. I've never felt as clear and happy in my entire life. I personally do not like the idea of patches/gels. I've known others that had absorption issues through the skin and responded much better to injections/tablets.

    • June 27, 2017 3:49 PM BST
    • Remember no drug is designed to change men into women, Spiro used to be used to inhibit the androgen  receptors recognising the naturally produced T,    Often used in over production of T affecting a persons heart rate.    It.s basically a T blocker.     Persons with intersex conditions ie. AIS, Reifensteins and people born with xxy cromosones should not be prescribed  Spiro.   It still suprises me that candidates for transition as far as I am aware are not tested for these conditions.    Lucy is our expert on HRT, having done a lot of research for herself.   AND does'nt she look great on it.

    • June 27, 2017 1:37 PM BST
    • For what it is worth, spiro is most used for people being treated for congenitive heart issues to reduce swelling in their extremities.  If it were so effective in blocking T (and I use the word "block", not kill off), there'd be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of men complaining about losing their ahhhh...ummm....manhood! (smile)  Plus, it can mess with your body tons if not careful.  

      As Lucy said, avoid it...


      Traci xoxo

    • June 27, 2017 1:23 PM BST
    • You neither want nor need spiro. If you're of a certain age then oestrogen alone will reduce your testosterone count dramatically, if not entirely.

      Patches (or gels) are probably the safest route but as long as it's 17-Beta oestradiol then pills are pretty safe too. As well as 2 x 2mg tablets per day I'm also prescribed oestrogel, which is probably less hassle than patches; it dries/disappears almost instantly and is unlikely to cause any allergic reactions (I got a deep red mark on my skin around the edge when I tried using a patch, which lasted for over a week).

      17-Beta, or bio-identical oestrogen, is extremely safe.

      Spiro is more risky, best to avoid it, especially as you'll find it's entirely unnecessary.


    • June 27, 2017 1:06 PM BST
    •   You lovely ladies have given me some hope that all will not be in vain.  I go to the doctor again on July 13th so i just have to wait a little longer.  I don't know much about specific HRT meds yet, but maybe one of you can give me just a little help.  From everything i read i want to go onto Spiro (oral) and estrogen (patch) as i hear this is the safer way to go. After I get those levels under control and all is good I will add progesterone.  Is it wrong that i am going to use HRT as an excuse to quit smoking?  I have not really cared about my body up to this point because it never felt like my body so i am looking at this step in my life as a sort of rebirth.  I am 6'1" and weigh in at 280lbs so diet and exercise is really going to be stepped up.

    • June 27, 2017 7:47 AM BST
    • Hi Julie, I was 41 when I started on HRT, and was really happy with the effects. Keep thoughts of cosmetic surgery as a last resort and give the med's several years to do their magic. I'm 13 years and counting now, and am still seeing and feeling the benefits of HRT.
      Oestrogen is a wonderful thing!
      Best of luck in your transition.

    • June 26, 2017 11:19 PM BST
    • Julie...I began my physical transition at the age of 59.  I was a former athlete who maintained myself pretty well over the years and looked decidely masculine.  Almost 8 years downstream on HRT, the metamorphasis has been remarkable!  I have far exceeded any expectation I had in terms of growth and development.  But as Donna alluded to, the absolute best part was in the mental changes.  Virtually all of my former T influenced anger, aggression, angst, and anxiety melted away repalced by a wonderful sense of well being, composure, and an extremely astute clarity of things around me. I truly have found my "happy place" and feeling this way has carried over into being socially accepted as people just seem to "like" me more.  Looking back, it is easy to understand why!  (smile)

      Best wishes always!

      Traci xoxo

    • June 26, 2017 9:22 PM BST
    • Age is not really the issue,but be clear that once you engage with Transition many things cannot be undone.It takes a while for HRT effects to make physical changes,but perhaps more significant is the mental changes you may well experience.How the meds work will depend a lot on your own base health e.g. If you smoke ,weight, if you have any liver or blood or heart condition.Golden rule is make sure you get proper medical supervision.General advice is to start HRT before considering any kind of surgery.Also consider that you will need to have some sort of schedule to see a specialist in gender dysphoria.and gauge how you feel ,when and what steps to take next.Generally try to look after your general health